Houserule idea, starting with crafting.

[FuelDrop]

So I'm looking at starting up my first game and one of the characters is looking to be a weaponsmith, and as a result is investing a lot of points in forge and crafting skills. They're putting fourth the argument that their character should be able to get stuff cheaper at character creation as they crafted it themselves.

Here's what I am toying with:

a character cannot buy anything worth more that 100 sp during character creation even if they can get such an item discounted. A character can only get a discount on items of availability Average or more common.

A character with Craft Armor can purchase a number of suits of armour/shields at Materials Cost during character creation equal to their rank in the skill (so a character with two ranks may purchase a set of armour and a shield at half off).

A character with Craft Weapon can purchase a number of weapons or units of ammunition at Materials Cost during character creation equal to their rank in the skill.

A character with Craftsman can purchase a number of items related to the craftsman skill in question at Materials Cost during character creation equal to their rank in the skill.

A Character with the Haggle Skill may take a 5% discount on a number of items equal to their Haggle level. A Character with the Haggle Talent may combine their discounts on a single item, up to a 15% discount.

Characters with Forge Weapon or Forge Armour may forge any of their eligible weapons/armor before the game starts, subject to normal restrictions.



Could I get some thoughts on these house rules? Any of them I should drop or modify?

[Lars Gottlieb]

The question is: Can this player handle it, or is it going to be a race to have the most powerful character in the party? Are you, in short, playing with people who are in it for the story, or does this player just want to verbally bash at the others with his circle 1 character and his shiny new full plate.

If it's just flavour and roleplay, your house rules seem fine, but I'm kinda smelling a rat in that this person feels the need to press you for better loot even Before the game has begun. If it was me, I'd allow the forging, Perhaps the 5% haggle bonus, and that'd be all.

If you're feeling particularly generous, tell him that sure he can have the materials, at half list price. Then he'll have to spend either services or money renting someones workshop, tools and assistance, then, please, make those crafting rolls. I think your player will find that just paying the list prices is both cheaper and easier.

[Tattered Rags]

Lars has an excellent point that having the skill doesn't mean you have access to the forge. Paying for access will definitely reduce any cost benefit.

And why does the player want these skills? Is it merely a justification to game the Character Creation process or is there a long-term vision? If it's the former, I'd say they should be stuck with the rules like everyone else. If it's the latter, then they shouldn't care and can get along with the same rules as everyone else.

(Though I like the pre-forged idea. Why make them wait for that benefit? The whole group can have it, if they've been together for a bit before the campaign starts.)

[etherial]

A character raised by wolves starts with the same funds as a character born with a silver spoon in their mouth. If you think you want to make an exception to this, fine, but I usually don't bother. What I would do, however, is let them start with their weapons already forged. The Weaponsmith will make plenty of money over the course of the game to utterly obliterate any concessions you give now.

[Dougansf]

please, make those crafting rolls. I think your player will find that just paying the list prices is both cheaper and easier.

This. They want the stuff because they have the skills, make them roll for it. Prove how valuable raising those skills are/will be.

[FuelDrop]

Thanks for the feedback.
I talked to the player and they are more than happy to accept a decision one way or the other. As I said, it's my first time running and I wasn't sure how much of a return on investment the skills would give during play and nor was the player, so they were trying to get something out of what we both suspected might just be "fluff skills".

Since you're saying they'll probably come up in play then the extra starting boost seems unneeded.

[Tattered Rags]

You're the GM. You can make them never come up in play, or you can make them needed every session.

The player wanted them. Reward it in play! That's good stuff, there!

[Telarus]

I agree. Also, this is a great opportunity to setup the relationship between the Weaponsmith Adept and his Master (who has a forge that can be used at a slight discount, and is a "patron" to send them on missions).

[RazanMG]

If youre going to play 4ed, weaponsmith has Craftsman talent, they dont need cratf skills.

[The Undying]

===== On-topic:

This is character creation item acquisition - you'll do it once, and then it is in the review mirror forever. I wouldn't put too much thought or heartache into it. My particular thoughts:

- It's likely a point of pride, not convenience, for a Weaponsmith to use items they personally crafted. Tell them that you're doing them a favor and setting aside all the crafting rules and allowing them to say they crafted each weapon, armor, and mundane item they own themselves BUT they pay full price to cover all of the obviously lost material that would normally accompany failed crafting that would happen to an initiate Weaponsmith. Point out that this is pretty generous (it is) and that, while you aren't strong-arming them, if they don't accept it, then you'll have to sit down, figure out how much time you actually have for crafting alongside all your initiate studies, compile all the difficulties, and then have you make a bunch of untrained rolls (you don't get that Craftsman Talent for these) to create them - unless they want to invest in some Craftsman Skills, which would be a bit foolish.

- Starting with weapon forged I think is perfectly acceptable. It adds a pretty meager difference in damage (1 point, 2 if they throw more starting points at Forge Weapon), and all it saves them is time.

===== Somewhat off-topic:

Since you're just starting into ED. First: WELCOME! Second: Unless you have a particular vision for your game already, or you know your players are very number-and-goal oriented, this is a good time to sit down and frame the world of Earthdawn, both for yourself and for your table. Earthdawn is a world of LEGENDS, your players should be encouraged to become attached to their characters and want to flesh them out. Legendary Heroes are also, at the heart, just people, and some interesting stories are found in what they do beside bashing heads and unraveling the mysteries of the world.

Skills fall into two categories for me: this a player wants because they can't access the Talent version, and things that exist for fun. You should encourage your players to pick up some of those latter things. They flesh out the character, make them more than a killing and mystery-solving machine, they make them REAL. Throw in little pieces of trivia tied to the land, their adventure, etc that they only notice because of some Skill they picked up. Reward them for those off-progress LP expenditures.

My Elementalist has Rank 3 in Jewelcrafting - not from character creature, but from LP/silver/time investment during play. Do I need this? No. Is it useful? Basically no except that it will someday for the basis for some of my Enchanting. Is it fun? YES. Eristed spends some of his downtime just collecting precious stones from his surroundings while he and his companions adventure. These serve as mementos of their travels, gifts for his companions to commemorate particular journeys, gifts to his friends and family whenever he returns to Ardanyan, etc. There's no real monetary value - if I wanted to make money off of it, my GM would make me roll for tests to harvest, but since it's just sentimental stuff, it's just role playing. Occasionally, he's thrown in little things, like banged-up jewelry I can repair - not for profit but because it's a piece of the history of the place we're visiting. He's also occasionally used them as hints, allowing me to recognize certain features and practices of different races, regions, etc, which helps us figure out where a corpse came from. That's all just fun. Yeah, it slowed me down a bit advancement-wise compared with my companions. Yeah, I could've used that elsewhere like on some of my languishing Thread Items. But this is FUN!