Distract + Impressive Display

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Anglix
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Distract + Impressive Display

Post by Anglix » Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:24 pm

can u use Impressive Display with distract or say use Winning Smile + Impressive Display then use Distract all this in combat

Panda
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Re: Distract + Impressive Display

Post by Panda » Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:42 pm

Greetings,

The answer is technically yes, but I don't know the goal behind the listed action sequence and the result isn't likely what you want.

Impressive Display can be combined with another action, though the action is replaced with Impressive Display. If you combine it with Distract, it doesn't provide the Distract effects and instead the effects listed under Impressive Display. You would also need to describe how your distraction is impressive as it's not immediately obvious. Winning Smile and Impressive Display is the same result; instead of the normal effects of Winning Smile, Impressive Display's effects are used.

While this may not be the case, I feel it's important to note the bonuses provided by Impressive Display and Winning Smile don't apply to Distract. Interaction tests are clearly defined in the Gamemaster's Guide, p. 144.

Hopefully this helps.

Best regards,

Morgan

Slimcreeper
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Re: Distract + Impressive Display

Post by Slimcreeper » Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:26 pm

Interaction tests are specifically Making and Impression, Deceit, Insight, and Intimidation, if you don't have the GM Guide. Usually they default to Charisma, which is why Impressive Display is cool - there aren't many abilities that boost Interaction tests directly.

Anglix
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Re: Distract + Impressive Display

Post by Anglix » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:51 am

so i want to talk about social interaction from a mechanical standpoint and using it in combat so say if i start off using any skill + impressive display is a simple action then goes into winning smile = standard action into distract = simple action

does all this work and end up boosting the distract roll thats made at the end?

Sharkforce
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Re: Distract + Impressive Display

Post by Sharkforce » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:59 pm

distract is not an interaction test. both of those other talents boost interaction tests. there is no interaction whatsoever between distract and either winning smile or impressive display.

in theory, you could make an interaction test (again, these are a clearly defined thing that you should read up on) at some point after using winning smile and impressive display in combat, although they are generally not as likely to work once combat has begun, and in any event it's likely to take at least a proper action to make most interaction tests realistically possible in my opinion.

Anglix
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Re: Distract + Impressive Display

Post by Anglix » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:09 am

there is a line that's under the rules for interaction test that points out you can use talents in interaction test and even this line - "in most cases, the rules for the relevant talent or effect supersedes the rules provided here.

powers like Bardic voice The adept uses their rich voice and persuasive magic to charm others. When making Interaction tests, using Emotion Song, or other Charisma-based talents that affect gamemaster character Attitude (Gamemaster’s Guide, p.142), the adept may add their Bardic Voice rank to the Action test. and even in the pod case about interaction test they talk about a troubadour using talents on a person to buff there first impressions talent.

I'm using Distract to deceive the target making it seem I'm more vulnerable and a better target over the warrior or swordsman.

Sharkforce
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Re: Distract + Impressive Display

Post by Sharkforce » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:06 pm

there are certainly cases where talents (or skills) can do something similar to interaction tests, and be used in situations where you otherwise might have used an interaction tests.

none of that implies that an ability which adds to interaction tests will add to talents that are to some extent similar to interaction tests, and in any event distract is not similar to any interaction tests at all.

I would also add that "in most cases, the rules for the relevant talent or effect supersedes the rules provided here" literally means that no, you *don't* use talents in interaction tests generally speaking. "supersede" means that they replace and have priority over interaction tests, not that they are absorbed into interaction tests.

in the case of bardic voice, just to be clear: that isn't allowing you to add the rank to all interaction tests, only to interaction tests that affect GM character attitude. meaning pretty much only "make an impression" tests are granted the bonus (presuming you both somehow *have* the bardic voice talent and also don't have the superior first impression talent or skill that would replace and have priority over the make an impression interaction test that you have no reason not to be using instead as they are superior in pretty much every way). I suppose an argument could be made that intimidation will sometimes *lower* GM attitude and bardic voice would apply in those cases where it does, although I don't think that matches the intent.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "pod case", but if you're talking about the sample scene where interaction tests are showcased, 1) that's a swordmaster not a troubadour, 2) no talent is being used to improve the first impression talent. the first impression talent is being used instead of a making an impression test, and fully replaces that test.

winning smile and impressive display are excellent talents. they are quite useful for actually getting GM characters to do things, which I would point out there is not an actual talent (or skill) for; conversation, first impression, and similar talents can make the characters more *friendly* to you, and therefore change what kinds of things they might be willing to do on your behalf provided you compensate them in some way as well as the kind of compensation they will require, but it doesn't actually get anyone to do anything on your behalf. to actually influence someone to do something, it's an interaction test, and that's what winning smile and impressive display improves.

this is *particularly* valuable because in many cases social defence does not increase the same way that physical and mystic defence do; a circle 9 warrior may very well have a social defence of 8 or 9, which you would otherwise only be able to roll your base charisma step against. winning smile and impressive display are both ways to get potentially substantial bonuses to your step on that roll, but even a very simple +2 bonus can be quite effective in persuading your targets to act the way you want.

they are very powerful talents, but improving distract is not what makes them good.

my advice, if you want to improve your chance to distract try and pick up taunt. it lowers the target's social defence if you succeed, and also makes that character in general less effective provided you can communicate with the target. another good option is to look at hex, a knack for arcane muttering, which also allows you to debuff the target including giving them a penalty to social defence. both are just generally useful options to have in your toolkit anyways, provided you can in fact add them to your toolkit of course (taunt at least is a skill, so that should be possible).

Anglix
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Re: Distract + Impressive Display

Post by Anglix » Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:09 am

I understand all this and I appreciate the conversation it's just that they use some grey wording that I wished to have some clarification and clarity on and believe that that social interactions needs rewording and should have the talents and skills and magic stuff like below removed to make it more clear as i know i have not been the only person to see the open wording used and the grayness to social interactions.

i was talking about there podcast Earthdawn survival guide ep on interactions and im also looking at the 4th ed rules and i cant seem to find HEX but i found JINX.

"While it can provide a handy guideline for role-playing character interactions, it is also frequently used in conjunction with
magical talents and abilities that target a character’s Social Defense."

"Whether persuading a librarian to give them access to the restricted archives, haggling over the cost of supplies, or interviewing a witness to a crime."

"If a character has a talent or skill appropriate to a situation that calls for an Interaction test, they may use the talent or skill. The effect of some talents, spells, or other abilities might provide a bonus to Interaction tests."

Belenus
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Re: Distract + Impressive Display

Post by Belenus » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:08 am

I once asked a similar question and then received an answer which made so much much clearer and easier to understand (In my opinion, this should be somewhere in one of the rulebooks). The rough wording was:
When you use a talent, such as First Impression, the corresponding test you make is called a First Impression-test, and thus no longer an Interaction-test. So no bonuses are added to those tests.

If I remember correctly, my initial question was about Initiative. Tiger Spring for example adds to Initiative tests but still can be used with Air Dance.
But if you read the wording of Air Dance, it doesn't replace the Initiative-test, it just replaces the step rolled for the Initiative-test, while Tiger Spring adds his step to the Initiative-test.

While First Impression even explicitly says, that you're making a First Impression-test.

Anglix
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Re: Distract + Impressive Display

Post by Anglix » Mon May 02, 2022 1:03 pm

see after meeting with my table i did see it like you, if you us any talent or skill it was no longer a interaction test but some see differently so i would like to know if it works like this

Winning smile to get success to interaction test then roll
impressive display (with a skill that fits) to get success to interaction test then roll
a flat CHA to say "Bribe someone unskilled" to get a favor, as a interaction test so getting the bonuses from the above 2 talents.

or can u do this

Winning smile to get success to interaction test then roll
impressive display (with a skill that fits) to get success to interaction test then roll
Knack Bribery to get favor and do u get the above 2 talents bonuses to this bribery roll

or is both right?

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