Avoid Blow, Physical, Defense and Windlings

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JBF
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Avoid Blow, Physical, Defense and Windlings

Post by JBF » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:38 pm

Hi all,

so in 4th Ed, Physical Defence is "more or less" +2/+3 compared to Dex Step
Windlings get an additional +2, so it is more or less +4/+5

Created a Windling Beastmaster for one of my players, and when seeing it, his reaction has been :
"Avoid Blow? How will I ever use that... Until Rank 4 or 5, i.e. Circle 4 or 5 I will hardly be able to ever overpass my physical defence, so avoid any hit that actually hit me"

Tried to convince him that with the use of Karma that still gave him a chance, but I am now thinking it would make sense to apply the +2 for Windlings also to his Avoid Blow Rank... Thoughts ?

ragbasti
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Re: Avoid Blow, Physical, Defense and Windlings

Post by ragbasti » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:02 pm

I wouldn't do it because 9nce you pass that rank 4/5 threshold, the windling has an absolute advantage with that extra bonus.

Being harder to hit should not translate into being better at evading.

Bonhumm
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Re: Avoid Blow, Physical, Defense and Windlings

Post by Bonhumm » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:12 pm

Indeed, Avoid Blow is like a 'second chance' at not being hit.

Perhaps he is a player used to previous edition where a failed Avoid Blow resulted in being knockdown?

Back then, using Avoid Blow was a hell of a gamble so that might be why he think its not worth it.

Belenus
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Re: Avoid Blow, Physical, Defense and Windlings

Post by Belenus » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:12 pm

Just as you noted yourself: Karma can be seen as an addition +4 Step.
+ Your dice can explode.
And what you shouldn't miss either: You no longer fall automatically if Avoid Blow fails. So just 1 strain damage for a second chance.

Aegharan
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Re: Avoid Blow, Physical, Defense and Windlings

Post by Aegharan » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:18 pm

Dex 16 gives step 7 and 9 PD, 11 PD for a Windling.

With Avoid Blow rank 2 he rolls step 9, +1d6 (step 4) for Karma, giving him a 13 as median result, which is already 2 higher than his PD. He thus has a great chance at avoiding. If you add in the importance of not being hit at all for the Windling and his rather low toughness step, this should be a no-brainer to take it.

However:
His (the player's) perception will differ greatly, as we tend to remember/perceive bad events more easily than good events. So if he tries to avoid 10 times and actually manages 7 of those, he will still feel the talent is not worth it.

Further he'd have to watch the skewing of statistics of only rolling against attacks that were "at least" his PD, many probably a good bit higher. So his success probability will be way lower than it would be if you only compare to his PD.

TL;DR: If you push him to take it, he may possibly resent you or the Char for it, as you can see it for taking player agency away. If he decides to take it later, it won't be expensive.

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Avoid Blow, Physical, Defense and Windlings

Post by ChrisDDickey » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:32 pm

If you are using the "use all talents to advance" optional rule, you can let him leave Avoid Blow fallow for a few circles. My windling Elementalist did not pick up Avoid Blow until 3rd circle, pretty much for the reasons the OP listed.
But beastmasters are not balanced solely for windlings, and the races that don't get that extra +2 see the benefit of a high Avoid Blow more often than windlings do.

Telarus
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Re: Avoid Blow, Physical, Defense and Windlings

Post by Telarus » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:53 pm

You can 'default' Avoid Blow to Dex Step (1/ rnd). Having ranks means you are much much much better off when swarmed.

JBF
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Re: Avoid Blow, Physical, Defense and Windlings

Post by JBF » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:09 pm

OK, makes sense
Thanks for the answers

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etherial
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Re: Avoid Blow, Physical, Defense and Windlings

Post by etherial » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:03 am

Avoid Blow is not very useful at low Circles for any character. But by Journeyman, the opportunity to take one Damage to avoid 30 is worth it, regardless of the odds.

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