When are you considered dead?

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
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Re: When are you considered dead?

Post by Calamrin » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:07 pm

Blimey this threads a bit dark!

Our Gm would most definitely not keep damaging a player after hes just died ...telling him round after round just how much more dead he/she is!

But then he does claim to be the players friend).... im still liking etherials reference to the Princess bride... i like the image of a situation where we are wheeling about a fallen comrade in a wheelbarrow looking for a miracle healer)

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Re: When are you considered dead?

Post by Telarus » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:54 pm

:D I loved the reference too. The healer's in-setting may even use "mostly dead" to describe the state. "Don't leave your mostly-dead friends lying around when there are Horror constructs nearby!", etc. :lol:
Last edited by Telarus on Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When are you considered dead?

Post by Purplefixer » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:42 am

etherial wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:22 pm
I was beginning to feel quite alone on that front...

We could do this for hours if you wunt.

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Re: When are you considered dead?

Post by BahtRastard » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:37 am

Telarus wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:03 pm
The character is dead, and things that target dead things will work on it.

The character's spirit & pattern integrity are stable until Toughness Step hours after death (I.E. it takes that long for one of Death-the-Named-Spirit's underlings to collect the personality/whatever part of the Pattern lives on in the afterlife and take it away). Certain magics work within this time-period.
So it would also be fair to say that any threads tied to the soon to be deceased's pattern would remain intact until their pattern unravels?

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Re: When are you considered dead?

Post by Digital Hermit » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:30 am

Hi all,

Telarus, just want to make sure I understand. So, two factors are happening here.

One is based on the practical and one is based on magic.

-For all practical purposes, no physical intervention i.e. medicinal or physical medical practices, will work on a character when they reach their death rating.

-However, should the proper "magics" be performed, the toughness step is only qualifier for resurrection.

OK, now another toughie. About taking damage after the character is dead. I know that ED is vague on damage specifics, and thankfully so... But, one has to ask, what about mutilation; from dismemberment, digestion, or disintegration? Meaning if you have a piece of said character left, could they be resurrected within the respective (toughness) time limit?

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Re: When are you considered dead?

Post by RazanMG » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:09 pm

The body will be brought to life as it is. Nothing major will grow back if it was cut away. So a character with half of head will be.....GM decides, half-brain?:P But if you have the pieces they will be magically combined. As I see it soft tissue will be regenerated, missing limbs will not.

The only magic from previous editions was 10th level spell Journey to Life, when cast successfully would grow back full body from piece of skin if it was all that was left.

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Re: When are you considered dead?

Post by Flowswithdrek » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:58 pm

Recall The Ancient Spirit was a 1st Edition Spell based on Journey to Life and could resurrect someone who had been dead for centuries with only a fragment of the body. The spell features in Secret Societies of Barsaive as part of Namman's Hand game info. The group and the guy they resurrected appear in the Travar book, so no reason the spell couldn't be reworked for 4th Edition.

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Re: When are you considered dead?

Post by Slimcreeper » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:19 pm

Unless the table has some sort of rule about hit locations, amputations, etc, if a character is brought back to life, the character is brought back to life whole. You can't called-shot the head and prevent resurrection, at least not RAW.

As the character is brought back to life, you can imagine any stray limbs laying around withering as they grow back on the body, damaged heads growing back, perforated lungs sealing etc. If you have some sort of house rule that destroys a limb or sense, then maybe it stays destroyed. Maybe on damage that doubles the wound threshold you have a hit location chart (1 - arm; 2 - leg; 3 - sight/hearing; 4 - wing/tail). Otherwise every deadly attack destroyed something critical and any resurrection repairs it.

The GM could definitely rule that there are some situations where the body is destroyed - like falling in a volcano or something - but that should be the exception, not the rule.

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Re: When are you considered dead?

Post by Digital Hermit » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:49 pm

Sorry, to get into ED metaphysics here, but this is interesting to me, thank your for your indulgence!

I remember a published game adventure where somehow one could look into the astral plane a see the threads of a dead person unraveling [into the spirit world/plain?]

I know this might not be canon and come down to a GM call, but, to me giving logic to the fantastic is what is needed for players to make sense of the game world, so they can act accordingly.

What I am getting to, from my previous statement, is could one assess that the threaded "body" is an astral scaffolding in which the material world is built upon? I do agree with the complete healing of a damaged body otherwise it would not be magic, and fantastic to behold. The ""healing" is building around the invisible astral scaffolding. But like I said, GM call.

With the Secret Society scenario they have knowledge in the realm of aritifactual magic. Magics that are beyond the scope of the "normal" magic capabilities of the time, correct? The Ancient Spirit spell ties into this well. Spirit creates (or the astral pulls from the spiritual to create) the astral thread constructs to-which the material is built upon. But the material, even though very old, has not lost its spiritual blueprint and through very powerful magics can rebuild the astral scaffolding to which the material can be built upon (kind of a reverse engineering.) Therefore the ED meta hierarchy would be spirit, astral, and material, correct? :geek:

My head hurts now. :?

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Re: When are you considered dead?

Post by Telarus » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:48 pm

Yes, you have the basics of the metaphysics correct. The key thing to keep in mind is that everything has a Pattern, and True (Named) Patterns are much more stable and magically active than non-Named Patterns.

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