How much does it cost to build a kaer?

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
User avatar
Kosmit
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:41 pm
Location: Warsaw
Contact:

How much does it cost to build a kaer?

Post by Kosmit » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:02 am

Did somebody count how much it would take to build a kaer?

To hire magicians to put and maintain wards?

Is there any source in the web that cover this area?

I've found an abandoned kaer and would like to run a school of nethermancers in there along with my laboratory. I've already closed all exits and put my Bone Circle to Gateway in/out. But for more serious experiments I would like to have some magical privacy... And I wonder if it is possible with my character's current funds...

Dyrmagnos
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:15 pm

Re: How much does it cost to build a kaer?

Post by Dyrmagnos » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:41 am

Dont think so.

We calculated cost of building good magic circle for my elementalist with essence. Plan was like (if my memory is good) 2m radius, 1 mm deep into ground and lane would be 1 cm thick. Cost of creating something like that is more or less 5000 sp.

Covering walls + creating good defenses at the gate + even temporary portal to air plane is far from possibilities of 1 adept of pre-legendary circle.

Edit: If you have ready abandoned kaer probably no one was so crazy to extract essence from the walls so only preparing gates + air conditioning is at range of warden adept.

Edit 2: I saw somewhere that amount of money should be around 3x LP of the character. Its hilarious and just wrong for me - Circle 8 character ~150.000 LP could possibly buy few Legendary items for that and still have money for training, potions etc... In our group money we get for 2-3 sessions for group of 5-9 circle group is around 500-1000 sp. We are really poor... :D

Lars Gottlieb
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:28 am

Re: How much does it cost to build a kaer?

Post by Lars Gottlieb » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:27 pm

I'd think some of the wards on a well protected Kaer would block bone circles connecting in or out.

Telarus
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:16 am

Re: How much does it cost to build a kaer?

Post by Telarus » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:40 pm

The Trading Companies of Throal pay their adepts 200 sp per Circle per Week for basic duties. That's what I always use for Adept pay scales.

User avatar
etherial
Posts: 878
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:04 pm
Location: Berlin, Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: How much does it cost to build a kaer?

Post by etherial » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:47 pm

Telarus wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:40 pm
The Trading Companies of Throal pay their adepts 200 sp per Circle per Week for basic duties. That's what I always use for Adept pay scales.
Wow! We've always paid a silver a day + room and board.

User avatar
The Undying
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:25 pm

Re: How much does it cost to build a kaer?

Post by The Undying » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:11 am

Telarus wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:40 pm
The Trading Companies of Throal pay their adepts 200 sp per Circle per Week for basic duties. That's what I always use for Adept pay scales.
Do you have a citation for that? I'm very curious. I can only think of two good gauges for Adept monetary "worthy", that I've come across. The big one is Sustained Action cost, which is 50 silver per Rank but for an action that usually takes a week. Rounding that, and it's essentially 10 silver / Circle / day. The other are caravan related - either hired on as accompaniment or "waved" fees when serving as defense. Both of those are just on the order of 20-25 silver / day, regardless of silver. 200 silver / Circle / day, especially for "basic" duties, seems very liberal. Most of the for-hire style paid adventures I've seen are usually something on the order of 200-300 silver / Circle for the duration, not the day. Given that the foray is often a week or two, that still tears down to 15 - 20 silver / Circle / day.

Lys
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:00 am

Re: How much does it cost to build a kaer?

Post by Lys » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:14 am

There's a third way to determine how much an Adept's labour is worth! Use the training costs chart on Pg. 454 of the ED4 PG, which gives you how much it costs to hire an adept for 40 hours of intensive but low risk labour. It's not a linear scale, but for example a Circle 5 Adept is worth 20 silver/hour, or 160 silver per 8 hour work day. Given that Weaponsmiths with Rank 5 Forging basically get paid 4.5 silver an hour, it seems to me that either training is too expensive or Forging too cheap.

User avatar
The Undying
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:25 pm

Re: How much does it cost to build a kaer?

Post by The Undying » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:02 am

I think it's possible for the advancement pricing to be completely out of whack with the rest of the economy. You see that in many real world equivalent licensing systems with tiers. The financial barrier to entry can be significant, but the idea is that you make up for it over the life of the new higher tiered license.

That being said, I'm also down with the idea that Weaponsmiths are underpaid for Forge. If you try to do the math on how low likely access to Weaponsmiths are, especially as the Circles increase, and compare it to how many people would likely want to have Forged material, you see a significant problem. Essentially, there would just be way too much demand for Forge access to supply. Likely, the limiting factor would be on people not willing to wait the 6+ month backlog out.

ON TOPIC: On the kaer side, I don't have the numbers, but I seem to remember the Revenge of Ardanyan giving some better information on likely costs of construction and population size.

Lys
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:00 am

Re: How much does it cost to build a kaer?

Post by Lys » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:22 am

The problem is that there is no Adept licensing, any Adept can teach another without limits or restrictions, which makes it a pure free market. You can't justify cartel pricing when there is no cartel.

As for Forging, i agree it does seem rather low. Eyeballing it, i'd say that if you make Forging take five days with a base cost 100 silver per rank, then the earnings would be pretty fitting for a rare and highly sought out expert doing low risk labour.

Slimcreeper
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 pm

Re: How much does it cost to build a kaer?

Post by Slimcreeper » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:59 am

You could definitely interpret and run the weaponsmith forges as cartels, if you were so inclined.

Either way - I haven't done the math, but it does seem like with the given supply and demand the cost of forging is artificially low. It's like they want every windling to have a death splinter.

Post Reply