Heat Food

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
Jason
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Heat Food

Post by Jason » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:33 am

Does the recovery test have to be during the Duration or just the food eaten with no 'duration' on when the next recovery test would be.
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Calamrin
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Re: Heat Food

Post by Calamrin » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:50 am

"Consumption of the heated food adds +4 to his next recovery test"

Thats how we play it, with the duration just applying to how long you have to eat it for it to work when you next make a recovery test.

My elementalist always heats breakfast, and provides hot nutritious snacks when tending the injured.

Thats how it reads to me anyway)

I could be wrong, i could be right....either way i dont see it being game breaking if someone who fall unconscious in battle gets +4 on a recovery test due to the good hearty breakfast the elementalist provided him)

Jason
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Re: Heat Food

Post by Jason » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:22 pm

I agree with you on that. I just found it odd that there is no duration listed. The situation of "I had heated food 2 weeks ago, but this is my first recovery test since, so I get the bonus" seems odd to me. Ended reading it originally as the recovery test had to be during the duration, but rereading it seems to indicate no limitation between eating and the recovery test.

When comparing it to other bonus things, the ones I looked at all seemed to have a limitation on how long after the effect the recovery test could be to have the effect.

Oh. The elementalist should put some more effort than that nd make it +6 (or more depending on circle) via extra thread(s)
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Slimcreeper
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Re: Heat Food

Post by Slimcreeper » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:11 pm

Well, everyone automatically takes their morning recovery test.

Gressiar
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Re: Heat Food

Post by Gressiar » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:17 pm

It is true that everyone makes a recovery test in the morning, but I have a feeling that the developers were thinking of Air Mattress as the bonus on morning recovery tests. I also believe the recovery test was intended to be made within the duration of Heat Food. Otherwise, Fireblood could get a +4 (or more) and I'm not sure if that was the developers' intentions.

Calamrin
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Re: Heat Food

Post by Calamrin » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:10 pm

Its apples and oranges...you could equaily say heat food is not designed to work with fireblood. but its just not worded in the description....

Again im not saying ones right or wrong....just saying its ambiguous.

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The Undying
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Re: Heat Food

Post by The Undying » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:32 pm

My thoughts on the contents thus far:

- I agree that the wording on Heat Food is a bit open-ended. I'd personally recommend limiting it to 24 hours just for house keeping.
- Remember that you can only benefit from one instance of a spell/talent at one time. Not that anyone has said otherwise here, just a reminder. Basically, this avoid something wonky like someone eating Heat Good for weeks before going adventuring and getting huge buffs on their first RT.
- Your first recovery test of the morning is actually taken upon waking. The timing on this is critical because you cannot (rules as written) opt to postpone it for morning RT buffs. The only way to improve the potency of that first RT is to do things before going to sleep: Heat Food for dinner, Booster Potion before bed, and a comfy Air Mattress all help.
- Fireblood is not a RT (rules as written), it just heals. Things that improve RT (including "can spend karma on RT") do not benefit Fireblood. That, however, is ruled as written - a number of people on the forum (I believe Mataxes included) have said they'd allow RT improving things to improve Fireblood. I am personally against that because it SIGNIFICANTLY increases access to effective healing mid-combat and greatly erodes one of the huge Time to Shine areas for Elementalists (who provide three of the five mid-combat healing abilities in the system).

Calamrin
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Re: Heat Food

Post by Calamrin » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:35 pm

24 hour limit seems perfectly fair....most elementalists are going to cast it first meal of the day, so it would be an unusual set of circumstances where it wouldndt fall into that 24 hour period.

Bit more technical reading:

In Fireblood it says spends not makes a RT.

By contrast in water elemental spear it says makes an instant RT at +2 that cannot be affected by other healing aids.

I would say cant use healing aids on fireblood, you also cant on elemental water spear....but you could spend karma on ele spear if u had the ability to use it on RT.

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The Undying
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Re: Heat Food

Post by The Undying » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:17 am

So, the Recovery Test is a weird thing in Earthdawn, especially because of the painful terminology ("Recovery Test" versus "Recovery test"). I actually made a fairly lengthy write-up on damage/wound healing eons ago: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=113

To avoid confusion, I'm again going to use my terminology from that post. A Recovery Point (RP) is the resource pool ("Recovery Test" in system parlance), whereas a Recovery Test (RT) is the Toughness-only test used to recover damage or heal a wound when no damage is present ("Recovery test" in system parlance).

An RT is an RT. Just because something allows you to bypass the standard restrictions on when an RT can be made doesn't make it's less of an RT. So, since the spells Elemental Spear - Water and Vital Springs both say the "targets may make an RT," that RT should receive all normal benefits that an RT can receive. This includes Booster Potions and Heat Food.

Keep in mind, though, that receiving these bonuses requires planning and resource that most parties likely won't do or have. You can't eat Heat Food in response to the spell, and you can't drink a Booster Potion in response to the spell - you either take the RT when the spell resolves or you don't. That means, for someone to get the benefits of Booster Potion, Heat Food, etc, they had to have done it before the spell goes off. Realistically, that's like an adventuring group preemptively eating Heat(ed) Food, washed down with a Booster Potion, for breakfast because they expect a battle that day, and moreover a battle that they'll need mid-combat healing for. It's not a great plan given the size/weight of a Booster Potion - having enough around to pound them like energy drinks at every meal is likely prohibitive.

Separate, in my opinion, there's a very good reason to take Rules as Written and not allow RT-improving things to improve Fireblood. As a preface, remember that your options for mid-combat healing are Elementalist spells, Fireblood on self, or Healing Potions (if your table allows that).
  • Fireblood allows mid-combat healing. Mid-combat healing is hugely beneficial in it's own right, so much so that it is scarcely available in the setting.
  • Fireblood is innate. As a Talent, it is much more difficult to stifle or deny in comparison to Spellcasting (Spellcasting is much more likely to be shut down during combat, and it can easily be stifled via things like Astral Interference).
  • Fireblood always succeeds. Receiving healing via Spellcasting has to overcome the target(s) Mystic Defense ... and that can fail at critical times.
  • Fireblood is a Standard Action. If you're lucky enough to have an Elementalist along, they'd have to have their healing spell already in a matrix, and an Enhanced Matrix at that, to be able to heal as a Standard Action.
  • Fireblood is at-will. You're not relying on someone else to notice your need for healing, and be available to heal you.
  • Fireblood already has more bonuses than an RT. An RT is a Toughness-only test unless enhanced otherwise. Some Disciplines get the karma ability "Can spend Karma on RT," but not all do. Meanwhile, Fireblood is a Toughness-based Talent, which means it's default Step is higher by default and can easily reach more than double the un-enhanced Step of the RT (triple easily if you play High Circle). Plus, as a Talent, everyone can automatically spend Karma on it, no Discipline-special Karma ability required.
  • Fireblood can get Knacks. Heal wounds at-will? Yes, please.
  • Fireblood can benefit from Relentless Recovery. Yeah, we're looking into the Higher Circles, but it's definitely worth mentioning.
  • Fireblood is not an RT. I left this one for last because it's the least interesting and most rules-lawyer-y [despite the case being incredibly clear cut]. Use of the Physician skill improves a subsequent RT. Booster Potions improves a subsequent RT. Heat Food improves a subsequent RT. Fireblood is not, nor has it ever (I believe), been an RT, it just uses RP. IF Earthdawn had named the Recovery stuff better, I doubt this question would even be raised.

Dougansf
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Re: Heat Food

Post by Dougansf » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:09 pm

The Undying wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:17 am
[*]Fireblood is not an RT. I left this one for last because it's the least interesting and most rules-lawyer-y [despite the case being incredibly clear cut]. Use of the Physician skill improves a subsequent RT. Booster Potions improves a subsequent RT. Heat Food improves a subsequent RT. Fireblood is not, nor has it ever (I believe), been an RT, it just uses RP. IF Earthdawn had named the Recovery stuff better, I doubt this question would even be raised.[/list]
Exactly.

No one ever asks if Wood Skin or Earth Skin can benefit from Recovery boosters. Fireblood is just another Talent that costs a RT, the effect just happens to be healing.

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