Heat Food

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
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etherial
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Re: Heat Food

Post by etherial » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:03 pm

Gressiar wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:17 pm
It is true that everyone makes a recovery test in the morning, but I have a feeling that the developers were thinking of Air Mattress as the bonus on morning recovery tests. I also believe the recovery test was intended to be made within the duration of Heat Food. Otherwise, Fireblood could get a +4 (or more) and I'm not sure if that was the developers' intentions.
Is it, though? If I have no damage, am I forced to make a recovery test upon waking?

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Mataxes
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Re: Heat Food

Post by Mataxes » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:05 pm

I wouldn't require it.
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The Undying
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Re: Heat Food

Post by The Undying » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:37 pm

Don't have book (really need to put it back on my phone) but I for some reason remember the text for the morning RT being conditional. As in "if the creature has damage/wound, it makes an automatic RT immediate upon waking after a long rest (if an RT is available)." Seems pretty harsh otherwise - plenty of things rocking a mere two Recoveries, some even a single, so requiring them to burn it in the morning to no effect (no damage, no wounds) is brutal.

Lys
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Re: Heat Food

Post by Lys » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:07 am

The specific rule is on page 381 of the ED4 Player's Guide: "Upon waking from a full night’s rest, an injured character (with 1 or more Current Damage) must make a Recovery test." Sounds pretty clear to me.

Also with respect to Fireblood, in my game our Warrior and my human Swordmaster mostly use it for end of combat healing. Like when the last opponent falls or flees, the immediate next action is to take a booster/healing potion and activate Fireblood. The talent says that the user must be near combat, and we determined that temporal proximity is just as good as spacial proximity. We also let potion bonuses stack with it, because otherwise the frontline combatants are always be injured on account of the ludicrous amounts of strain they take.

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The Undying
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Re: Heat Food

Post by The Undying » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:36 am

@Lys

To each their own. For me, damage (including Strain) should mean something. Characters should have to weigh the pros and cons about whether its worth it to spend that Strain for that extra Talent. It adds drama. Giving them more healing then they're entitled to reduces that drama, and allows them to throw around more weight than they should be able to (causing the GM more headaches for balancing encounters). Will you do something like double the bonus of a Booster Potion when they hit higher Circles where Talents start costing two Strain? If not, then why give them an unintended bonus now when they cost one?

IIRC, though, you've often weighed in that you like the feeling of epic encounters. I definitely agree that it's harder to have epic encounter when the neat-o abilities cost Strain you don't necessarily have to throw around. I imagine, though, you REALLY have to play your NPC opponents ultra-aggressive, almost like they assume they're going to die, otherwise the PCs are likely to throw around more Strain-powered Talents because they have that unintended boost to their healing.

Anyways, separate thought, I really like the idea of allowing Fireblood use in the one or two minutes after combat. It makes a lot of sense. Very few people instantly calm down after a fight - the adrenaline takes a bit to wear off. That seems much more realistic a 'out-of-combat' use than mock-combat with companions.

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Re: Heat Food

Post by Telarus » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:16 pm

It also lines up with the old school idea of "combat in the dungeon occupies the entire 10 minute exploration turn, regardless of how many combat rounds it lasted. Character spend the remaining time recovering from battle, tending to comrades, looting, etc."

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Re: Heat Food

Post by Lys » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:23 am

Undying, you have it backwards. Stormbreaker the Swordsmaster does not go all in on her Talents because she has Fireblood, she obtained Fireblood because she goes all in on her Talents. She always fights with all her might, it does not matter if her opponent is strong or weak, it is simply not in her nature for her to hold back in a serious battle. The way she sees it, it's just as good to show off prowess by overthrowing the strong in hard fought battle, as it is to show off skill by hewing down the weak in one blow. There no artistry in restraint, no beauty in a purposely drawn out duel, it's at best inelegant and at worst cruel.

Philosophy aside, from a tactical perspective there is little reason to save on strain. Firstly any strain you save will be of little use in your current fight, it's being saved for the next, but there is usually little way of knowing when and how that fight will materialize. Even the GM doesn't know most of the time, because players frequently make unexpected decisions. What's more, each battle will itself be unpredictable due to the vagaries of chance, so you can't know how long any given engagement will last nor how much damage you will take during it. It is simply not possible to draw up a strain budget when you know neither what you're budgeting for, nor what you're budgeting with.

Even if you do draw up such a budget, there is no guarantee it will save you any health. For the more you allow your opponent to fight unhindered, the greater the chances that you will suffer a wounding blow, leaving you more injured than if you'd defeated him quickly. Therefore the only circumstances in which it makes sense to not use your Talents, is when you believe that their benefits will not affect on the outcome. There is little point to calling on more power when victory is already certain. Otherwise though, you fight with all your might.

Because of these tactical realities, having more recovery available does not actually increase Adept power, but rather increases Adept endurance. The more health at their disposal, the longer they can sustain high intensity combat, keeping in mind here most combat will be hight intensity for the reasons outlined above. This means longer battles or more of them. It's simply not practicable to trade endurance against effectiveness, because saving on strain comes at a cost of greater damage and wounds, which also diminish your endurance. If your strain savings don't come at such a cost, then you were above maximal combat effectiveness, and the additional power they gave you was being wasted. Diminishing waste is not a trade-off, it's pure benefit.

This is also why a GM attempting to get the players to husband their resources by having NPCs be ultra-aggressive would actually produce the opposite effect. The more aggressive and dangerous the opponent, the more critical it is to take them out quickly, and that means going all in on the strain. If you want to get your players to fight with caution and restraint, you must go in the opposite direction, and have their enemies be defensive and unwilling to commit to battle. If an engagement turns into a series of hit and run raids and indecisive skirmishes, slowly wearing down on the Adept's endurance, then she would be well advised to conserve her strength until she can force decisive battle. Once the enemy has been corned though, she should go at them with full power.

Finally, your logic is exactly the same i used to justify Fireblood being usable immediately after a fight ends. Once the last opponent falls or flees, the blood will still be up for several moments, providing a window during which it can still fuel the Fireblood, healing and calming down the user. It feels like a really appropriate and thematic way for a Warrior to come down from the combat high. The thing about it is though, if it doesn't stack with potions then there is no point in using it that way. Stormbreaker for example has Step 6 Toughness and Fireblood 6, for a total of Step 12 recovery. Meanwhile the Wizard has Physician 4, which with the +8 from the potion, ads up to Step 18 recovery. Given that letting the Wizard bandage her up is superior, why would she bother with Fireblood?

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The Undying
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Re: Heat Food

Post by The Undying » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:09 am

Well, as I said, to each their own. Our philosophies on how to manage a finite resource, or if it should be managed at all, are different, as is how combats play out. I won't be changing my mind any time soon, I don't think you will be either. :)

But, we've digressed regardless. For me, Fireblood is no RT, so never shall it benefit from "bonus to RT" system elements. You do you. :)

Lys
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Re: Heat Food

Post by Lys » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:01 am

We treat all healing rolls as being fundamentally the same unless it explicitly says otherwise. Water Spear says it does not benefit from healing aids so it doesn't, Fireblood does not say so, so it does.

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The Undying
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Re: Heat Food

Post by The Undying » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:24 am

Sweet, Booster Potion bonus for Blood Share!! I keed, I keed. :D

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