PC Magic Items

[Jaracove]

A player has a warrior character and the warrior uses a particular two-handed sword all the time. They are really attached to that sword.

I might have missed it but, are there rules for when that warrior's sword transforms from mundane to magical? I don't mean deliberate enchanting or crafting, but turning magical because it has been used so much. Much like (I assume) Nioku's bow; that wasn't 'made', it became magical due to close proximity with Nioku.

[etherial]

A player has a warrior character and the warrior uses a particular two-handed sword all the time. They are really attached to that sword.

I might have missed it but, are there rules for when that warrior's sword transforms from mundane to magical? I don't mean deliberate enchanting or crafting, but turning magical because it has been used so much. Much like (I assume) Nioku's bow; that wasn't 'made', it became magical due to close proximity with Nioku.

It sounds like this sword is a Pattern Item for the Warrior. It has developed a strong connection to their Pattern. Now if someone else gets their hands on that sword, they can tie threads to that sword, gaining bonus Ranks when using Talents against the Warrior.

There's no mechanics for becoming a Thread Item through association, but IMB, they usually happen as a result either of the owner tying Threads to the item to give it enough power to spontaneously develop its own magic or by committing a Dying Act with the item and posthumously imbuing it with their own magical power.

[Mataxes]

This idea pops up often enough that I really should do an article or blog post (or series) about it.

The rules don't easily support this kind of thing because, thematically, the game tries to focus on recovering the past and discovering that which was lost. Using traditional pattern item thread magic doesn't really work because it would require somebody else to weave the threads to the sword in order to boost the Warrior (which usually means that person needs the sword, kind of defeating the purpose at hand).

Basically, the sword could become a thread item when the GM says it does. I would strongly recommend this change happen in conjunction with a significant campaign milestone (climactic battle against a long-term foe, for example). Then... just make it a thread item. It should probably be limited to Novice tier, with the option for additional Legendary ranks based on campaign deeds.

[Telarus]

The books don't go into the spontaneous generation of Thread Items, but Mataxes has described the basic process. SOMETHING IMPORTANT happens, and then it is discovered that an item used by one of the Named patterns in this important event has developed a True Pattern of its own (I see this as evolving _past_ being a pattern item). The key thing seems to be, from the fiction, that when two or more Named patterns of great power clash, conflict, or collaborate, an item important to one of the Named patterns, or to the event somehow, becomes a Named pattern itself. Nioku's Bow, the Axe from the 1e example, and the Dagger from the 1e adventure "Kaer Tardim" all follow this pattern.


Of course, I'm sure that the Dragons terribly discourage published or rumored magical theories like "Go slay a Named dragon/spirit/horror and your sword might become Named." Like really, REALLY discourage it. Like, it would be a shame if your workshop suddenly burnt down, discourage it....

[Slimcreeper]

This might be a cool thing to talk through with the player and get some ideas. What kind of powers and abilities would the player be interested in? Then the GM could write some adventure opportunities that could transform the sword into a Thread Item. I've always imagined that at the moment of the transformation, the wielder would get access to all of the abilities that the item has for the course of the encounter. In a Dying Wish situation, the hero imbues it with power and bequeaths it to his ally, who gets to use the weapon with all of its abilities maxed out to slay the horror that killed her friend.

You could make up some rules where at the time of the transformation the wielder could make a threadweaving test (0). The number of successes equals the number of ranks the weapon has to start with, as well as the weapon's Mystic Defense. If it improves after that, you would need to make the threadweaving test against the Mystic Defense.

There isn't anything like this in the rules, because we don't want thread items showing up just willy-nilly. Everyone in the party might have a thread item or two, but not everyone is going to create a unique legendary item. After all, if everything is a unique legendary item, then nothing is a unique legendary item.

One thing that's always been awkward is that there isn't any benefit to having a pattern item develop, only potential vulnerabilities.

[The Undying]

thematically, the game tries to focus on recovering the past and discovering that which was lost.

This seems like the best place to make this comment/request, even though it's slightly off-topic.

As the ED4 Enchanting thing cements, please don't make a system that's overly hard or time-consuming to force a vision that tables should focus on thread item drops versus creation - leave that to the table. I'd love to see a system that is engaging, fun, and interesting that meets any needs the design team has to make enchanting something that doesn't happen frequently. But there are ways to do that so that adventurers can still do it fairly well, if interested, while people that never/rarely leave the city can't just crank out thread items for profit or commission. I think it's entirely fair to include in the Enchanting section a statement that says something akin to "Part of Earthdawn's vision is about exploring the past and uncovering its legends, often incorporating previous legends into your player's legends through the use of Thread Items; as a result, we suggest focusing more on GM-provided Thread Item treasures versus Player-Enchanted items, but these rules are provided for play groups that want to incorporate player-Enchanting into their story." But the system should not be cranked up to 11 with the expectation that tables that want to make it more accessible ratchet it back down via house rules. Raising the Enchantment-related Knacks up by 4 Circles from previous editions, going from one month enchanting duration to 3/6/12 month durations, or multiplying cost by orders of magnitude like 10/100 ... none of these are "fun" and don't feel like "improvements" to me.

(Impetus of this comment is a different thread where you suggested - or I read into your statement - that part of the summoning changes in ED4 were to help make summoning less civilly available ... I'm personally not keen on seeing similar mechanics used to make enchanting less civilly available)

[Mataxes]

I get what you're saying.

My comment that you quoted is more in the line of providing historical context to why the game hasn't provided a framework for self-generated thread items.

Personally, I don't see any reason to have a separate system for that. I have thoughts and suggestions about how to approach it, and limits that I think make sense in the context of magic theory and how thread items gain power (in the default setting assumptions).

I see two different motivating goals in these discussions, and I want to draw a bit of a dividing line between them. One is the desire to craft/enchant magic items. Not just thread items, but also potions through alchemy, blood charms, and the like. The "artificer" is something of an archetype, and is also driven (at least in part) from a desire to not be beholden to "random loot drops".

The other goal, I think, is this narrative desire, driven by the legends and history of thread items: "I don't want to use somebody else's stuff, I want my sword to be as awesome as Purifier."

I mean, they're kind of related, but there is a different underlying psychology going on there. And I think the latter ends up being disappointed, because part of what makes Purifier Purifier... what makes any legendary item legendary is... well... time. Time for the magical pattern to grow and develop. Going by the default magical theory assumptions, you aren't going to see that until much later in your career. It requires patience, in the same way learning about and bonding any thread item requires patience.

[The Undying]

I totally agree, and I do apologizes for confusing things a bit here. Crafting/Enchanting is totally a different thing than Spontaneous Thread/Pattern creation. I, too, am of the mind that there doesn't need to be a system for Spontaneous Thread/Pattern creation - some guidance could be given to GMs, but situations where this kind of thing could happen to me will just feel right (e.g., party member risks his life shielding the rest of the party and almost dies in the act .. just the act of the risk likely isn't enough ... that's a good excuse to consider a spontaneous armor thread item). At most, I see the lines blurring a bit between Spontaneous creation and Legendary Acts, but even then, there's no "system" for legendary acts, it comes down to GM discretion.

Anyways, again, sorry for the diversion. I appreciate the response, and while I don't expect ED4 to bend to my individual will (except on Plant Talk as an Elementalist Discipline Talent ... get that outta here ... ), I hope this perspective/sentiment on Enchanting will carry through into the Companion. I'd still personally love to see a Companion preview on Enchanting (especially if the Companion is still likely multiple months out), but I totally understand that that would be "yet another thing to do on top of actually getting the product out."