Talent options + Multi-discipline + 'Use all talents to advance'

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
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Bonhumm
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Talent options + Multi-discipline + 'Use all talents to advance'

Post by Bonhumm » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:53 pm

I could really use a clear ruling from a DEV here. We had a discussion about this in Discord but it was mostly opinions so I would like to have an answer to the following questions:

When getting a second Discipline in the context of using the optional rule 'Using all talents to advance':

1- My understanding is that if Discipline #1 had a talent OPTION that is now becoming a DISCIPLINE talent in Discipline #2, said talent is NO LONGER a discipline #1 talent AND the talent option slot in Discipline #1 becomes 'open' to chose a new optional Talent and that even if the 'disappearance' of that talent option might mean that the character no longer fit the minimum requirements to be at the current Circle that he is. Y/N?

2- This also means that said talent option no longer exist at all within the context of Discipline #1, so its Rank no longer count for future Circle advancement minimum requirement. Y/N?

3- What happen to the Rank of that talent-option-which-just-became-a-discipline-talent? For example; if said OPTIONAL talent was at Rank 5, does it mean that the brand new first Circle Discipline #2 gets said talent at Rank 5 OR does it still (as usual) begin at Rank 0 and must be brought up with LP?

4- If the answer to question #3 was the second point, what happen to the LP that were spent on the (then) talent option? Reimbursed? Lost?

5- Learning a new talent for a 2nd discipline takes 40 hours of training. Since the character already 'knows' said talent (but only as a talent option) does he need to spend said 40 (AND pay the trainer accordingly) to 're-learn' the talent or not?

6- What about knacks? If the character had learned a knack to the (then) optional talent, do they 'follow' the new Discipline talent or are they lost? And if so, again, what happens to the LP spent on said knack?

Thank you.

Sharkforce
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Re: Talent options + Multi-discipline + 'Use all talents to advance'

Post by Sharkforce » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:54 pm

I am not a dev, but I am pretty sure the majority of this is explicitly answered in the rule books, which are of course from a dev. question 2 is the only one I'm not sure of simply by reading the rulebooks.

bleeding
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Re: Talent options + Multi-discipline + 'Use all talents to advance'

Post by bleeding » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:14 pm

I think that with that option of advancement, talent options are not handled like in normal advancement. So there is not slot becoming free. The talent option is considered like a core talent.

Dougansf
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Re: Talent options + Multi-discipline + 'Use all talents to advance'

Post by Dougansf » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:40 pm

Bonhumm wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:53 pm
When getting a second Discipline in the context of using the optional rule 'Using all talents to advance':

1- My understanding is that if Discipline #1 had a talent OPTION that is now becoming a DISCIPLINE talent in Discipline #2, said talent is NO LONGER a discipline #1 talent AND the talent option slot in Discipline #1 becomes 'open' to chose a new optional Talent and that even if the 'disappearance' of that talent option might mean that the character no longer fit the minimum requirements to be at the current Circle that he is. Y/N?
Yes.
2- This also means that said talent option no longer exist at all within the context of Discipline #1, so its Rank no longer count for future Circle advancement minimum requirement. Y/N?
Yes
3- What happen to the Rank of that talent-option-which-just-became-a-discipline-talent? For example; if said OPTIONAL talent was at Rank 5, does it mean that the brand new first Circle Discipline #2 gets said talent at Rank 5 OR does it still (as usual) begin at Rank 0 and must be brought up with LP?
4- If the answer to question #3 was the second point, what happen to the LP that were spent on the (then) talent option? Reimbursed? Lost?
I've heard two schools of thought on this:
1) The character must buy up the New Discipline version to the same Rank as the original before the Optional Slot is freed up and LP refunded.
2) The character is refunded the LP for the Optional Talent, and must spend it into the new Discipline Talent. If that leads them to having LP leftover, it's best to pay the difference to the next Rank.

Option 2 is my preferred method.
5- Learning a new talent for a 2nd discipline takes 40 hours of training. Since the character already 'knows' said talent (but only as a talent option) does he need to spend said 40 (AND pay the trainer accordingly) to 're-learn' the talent or not?
No.
6- What about knacks? If the character had learned a knack to the (then) optional talent, do they 'follow' the new Discipline talent or are they lost? And if so, again, what happens to the LP spent on said knack?
It doesn't matter where the Talent is located, just that the character meets the Requirements and Restrictions for the Knack.
Presumably they would still be a Circle X in the Primary Discipline despite this change.
There could be an issue due to a decrease in Rank if using option 2 above. A kind GM would give the PC a grace period to make up the difference in Rank, or it's a reason to use Option 1 instead.

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etherial
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Re: Talent options + Multi-discipline + 'Use all talents to advance'

Post by etherial » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:23 am

Bonhumm wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:53 pm
1- My understanding is that if Discipline #1 had a talent OPTION that is now becoming a DISCIPLINE talent in Discipline #2, said talent is NO LONGER a discipline #1 talent AND the talent option slot in Discipline #1 becomes 'open' to chose a new optional Talent and that even if the 'disappearance' of that talent option might mean that the character no longer fit the minimum requirements to be at the current Circle that he is. Y/N?
I would also accept "The Adept keeps it in the TO slot to keep a lower advancement cost active."

ragbasti
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Re: Talent options + Multi-discipline + 'Use all talents to advance'

Post by ragbasti » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:27 am

Bonhumm wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:53 pm
3- What happen to the Rank of that talent-option-which-just-became-a-discipline-talent? For example; if said OPTIONAL talent was at Rank 5, does it mean that the brand new first Circle Discipline #2 gets said talent at Rank 5 OR does it still (as usual) begin at Rank 0 and must be brought up with LP?

4- If the answer to question #3 was the second point, what happen to the LP that were spent on the (then) talent option? Reimbursed? Lost?
Most things seem to have been answered al ready, I'll just add to this one:

As written, the talent is just transferred to the new discipline, not requiring additional training or re-training. However, further rank increases are now calculated based on it being a second discipline talent.
This replacement is immediate, so no keeping the talent option around on your first discipline for cheaper rank increases.
If a character has learned a Talent Option that is a Discipline Talent for a new Discipline, that talent becomes a Discipline Talent as soon as the character qualifies to learn it from the new Discipline. From then on they use the Legend Point cost for the new Discipline. Until then it is treated as a Talent Option for the old Discipline. Once it becomes a Discipline Talent, the Talent Option slot is freed up, and the character may learn a new Talent Option from the old Discipline.

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