[ED4] Same spell multiple times on one target - what happens?

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
voyager156
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[ED4] Same spell multiple times on one target - what happens?

Post by voyager156 » Fri May 31, 2019 7:34 pm

Let's use this spells as example:
"Mind Dagger
Duration: 2 rounds
Effect: WIL+2/Mystic and a -2 penalty to Physical Defense"

What happens when:
1. Wizard successfully cast this spell in one round; in the second round he casts it successfully again on the same target.
2. In the same round 2 wizards both successfully cast this spell on the same enemy.

And now --> how works the duration and penalty to physical defense in such case? Does it stack, etc.

Bonhumm
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Re: [ED4] Same spell multiple times on one target - what happens?

Post by Bonhumm » Fri May 31, 2019 8:10 pm

Spells with effects that do not stack usually have this specified in the spell description.

Therefore, unless I've missed something, I'd say that it would go this way:

Round 1: Effect: WIL+2/Mystic and a -2 penalty to Physical Defense"
Round 2: Effect: WIL+2/Mystic and a -4 penalty to Physical Defense"
Round 3: Effect: WIL+2/Mystic and a -4 penalty to Physical Defense"
Round 4 (do NOT cast): ''-2 penalty to Physical Defense"
etc

Panda
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Re: [ED4] Same spell multiple times on one target - what happens?

Post by Panda » Fri May 31, 2019 8:20 pm

The opposite is true: effects that do stack are listed in the description. Multiple instances of the same spell only used the "biggest" effect (absolute value). Stacking multiple Mind Daggers on the same target without changing the penalty effectively increases the duration; as one runs out, there is another penalty waiting.

Sharkforce
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Re: [ED4] Same spell multiple times on one target - what happens?

Post by Sharkforce » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:03 am

Panda wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:20 pm
The opposite is true: effects that do stack are listed in the description. Multiple instances of the same spell only used the "biggest" effect (absolute value). Stacking multiple Mind Daggers on the same target without changing the penalty effectively increases the duration; as one runs out, there is another penalty waiting.
so, biggest penalty would take priority until it runs out, then biggest remaining penalty until that runs out, etc, and if a new application has a higher penalty that would take over.

Telarus
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Re: [ED4] Same spell multiple times on one target - what happens?

Post by Telarus » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:24 pm

You got it. :)

Belenus
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Re: [ED4] Same spell multiple times on one target - what happens?

Post by Belenus » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:23 pm

Not quite true, the duration of the second spell does not begin after the first duration ended, it begins instantly.
So it could happen that the second spells duration expired before it even showed an effect.

Sharkforce
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Re: [ED4] Same spell multiple times on one target - what happens?

Post by Sharkforce » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:35 pm

sure. biggest *remaining* penalty.

Avanti
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Re: [ED4] Same spell multiple times on one target - what happens?

Post by Avanti » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 am

I thought it was that the biggest effect overwrites the previous one, including duration?
e.g. you hit with a spell that has -2 PD for 4 rounds. Then someone else hits with -4 PD with duration of 2 rounds (say different application of extra threads), then the target is affected by -4 PD for 2 rounds and after that expires - nothing... :ugeek:

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Mataxes
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Re: [ED4] Same spell multiple times on one target - what happens?

Post by Mataxes » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:20 am

That's easier to manage from a bookkeeping standpoint (you don't need to keep track of so many durations), but it isn't what was intended.
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Lursi
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Re: [ED4] Same spell multiple times on one target - what happens?

Post by Lursi » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:10 pm

Panda wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:20 pm
The opposite is true: effects that do stack are listed in the description. Multiple instances of the same spell only used the "biggest" effect (absolute value). Stacking multiple Mind Daggers on the same target without changing the penalty effectively increases the duration; as one runs out, there is another penalty waiting.
Does this also count for a group of 7 Elementarists all casting a fireball at mister bad guy in the same round? So only the highest damage is counted and the rest discarded?

I can see why there is this motivation for rule for penalty effects. But for damage, I would say every independent source counts.

Regarding the penalties one could argue with a group acting coherently being able to stack these effects. This would make it possible to unleash and control pretty big elementals with a group of 7th circle elementarists instead of requiring the 14th circle guy.
The scaling matters. Just adding successes together linearly makes it too easy for a large group of noobs to unleash a master elemental but using the fibronacci scaling just like with LPs and ranks I think it is viable.
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