[Ed4] Spell Matrix Item cost

[Telarus]

ED4 Gamemaster's Guide, p.232

"Only Standard Matrix Objects can typically be found for sale, and even that is rare. Magicians that use matrix objects typically create their own. Market prices are at gamemaster’s discretion, but typically start at 500 silver and increase from there."

[Lys]

Ah there it is, thank you. You know given that they're Thread Items, the old cost made a lot more sense. Given that it was 1500 and it's now 500, it's possible that this is simply a typing error that resulted in the 1 getting lost somehow.

[The Undying]

Yeah, I'd be inclined to agree with Lys; that was my first thought, too. That being said, though, I could also see dropping JUST the Standard Matrix Object to offset the reduced number of matrix Talents magicians have in ED4. Have prices for the other objects changed?

[Mataxes]

Prices for other thread items aren't given in the first two rulebooks at all, so it's impossible to say if the prices for them changed at all.

That said, I'm not a fan of thread items (even bland Novice ones) being "for sale." I mean, it's possible, but... well...

There's actually a thread on RPGnet about this sort of thing. An Alternative to the Magic Item Shop, which approaches the idea less like a retail store and more like trading in rare and collectible commodities (fine art, etc). In that sense, prices could be anything, based on demand and interest. (Indeed, there are some interesting role playing and story hooks involved in an 'auction' of magic items.)

[Lys]

Thread items aren't for sale in the sense that you buy them at your local magic item shop. They're for sale in the sense that you hire an Adept of the appropriate Discipline to make you one. For the most part anyone who already has a thread item is going to be unwilling to part with it, and the thread items of dead Namegivers are passed on to their heirs, or taken by those who killed them. That's why the ED3 Gamemaster's Companion had no prices for Legendary items, they simply cannot be made. However that is not to say that thread items have no monetary value outside of what it costs to commission one. On occasion a person may come to possess a thread item they have no use for, and so sell it to someone who does, likely by means of an autction. Similarly, an heirloom thread item may wind up ransomed back to the original wielder's heirs, if they can afford it. For example Leatherwing and Windrazor are both fairly unremarkable thread items, but they are likely valuable to the Carinci family, so if you've killed General Nikar Carinci you can probably get a hefty ransom out of his family for the two of them. (You can also ransom Nikar himself if you take him alive, but he's likely to vigorously object to being taken at all.)

[The Undying]

That said, I'm not a fan of thread items (even bland Novice ones) being "for sale." I mean, it's possible, but... well...

This is the direction D&D 5 went. You don't just stroll into a store anymore (RAW) and say "show me your magical goods; also, here is a +1 sword I found, I expect the standard rate of 1,000 gold, minus your commission." Only specific stores deal in magic, they are few and far between, they have very limited inventory, and if you're trying to sell them something, they MIGHT be willing to buy it for stock but more likely will only help you find a buy or hold it in an auction-house / consignment-shop fashion.

I think this is in-line with Mataxes's vision. In any of the major cities, I imagine there are A SMALL HANDFUL of stores that deal in thread items. On one hand, I could see these items as being considered so powerful (even if they 'suck', they're still few and far between) that people would never want to let them go, they'd stay within organizations or families; however, plenty of people fall on hard times, and it's always possible that an adventurer comes across an item that just really isn't useful for them or their companions. However, I also imagine that the stores are very eclectic in inventory: the chance that you'll find the specific thing you want is nearly impossible, and the chance that you'd even find something similar is probably low.

Now, that being said, I love the idea of Enchantment of thread items as a professional capacity, especially something players could perform, so I like the idea of this being present, even if it is exceptionally rare. I'd imagine these things work entirely on commission for specific products, generally operate on the restrictions of "crafted" level items, produce fairly broad results (following the anti-stacking rules but likely avoiding it even moreso), and are very, very expensive (the level of proficiency required is very high - I'm talking like mid-Master level Adept minimum - to perform enchantments when you are not heavily personally invested via material collect and the addition of significant acts). I'd also imagine they're be a rather lengthy wait for such services (takes a solid month for the enchantment, actual crafting of base components aside). Higher-powered items (*maybe* creeping into general treasure rank and effects level) with less generic capabilities could also likely be Enchanted, but unless it's a player doing this as part of their adventuring (collecting for materials, going on specific errands to search down long-lost enchanting formulas and methods, etc), I'd put this outside of a purchasable service.

Of course, I also personally believe that Blood Charms and armors powered by Blood Magic should be far less common and harder to get. In my world-view, you aren't stumbling into the General Store, or even the Arms and Armor store, to buy these. You're hunting down specialty shops or dealing directly with Nethermancers (either turned merchant or acting as the enchanter with someone else as the people person front of shop). For me "rare" does not just me "go to a big city."

[The Undying]

That's why the ED3 Gamemaster's Companion had no prices for Legendary items, they simply cannot be made.

Legendary items cannot be made, yes. However, even powerful general treasure could be considered priceless, and these aren't necessarily unique items or "uncraftable," just items that the knowledge for crafting them is either long lost or was only ever performed/perfected by a single Adept that has passed on, resulting in very few of them existing or only one remaining (thereby making it "unique" but not in the sense of "legendary" unique).

[etherial]

(You can also ransom Nikar himself, but he's likely to vigorously object to being taken at all.)

FTFY. Nethermancy is a thing.

[Telarus]

As brought up in the RPG.net thread, common thread items may be available with a bit of haggling, but everything past that requires a "broker" or "fence" type that sets the deal up between the private parties. There is very much a Shadowrun undertone to the politics and economics of Barsaive.

[Lys]

Generally speaking, the places likely to deal in thread items aren't so much stores as full on merchant houses. Only a large organization would have the resources to acquire and safeguard something so valuable. They're also not likely to keep them in stock in the hopes that someone will express interest, but rather contact potential buyers as soon as possible in order to arrange a transaction. The comparison to art dealers that Metaxes made is rather apt. When you're talking about high end art pieces, the dealer doesn't just put it in a gallery with a price tag in the hopes someone might buy it, they advertise the items through the proper channels and then hold auctions. That's just how the trade of very high price objects goes.

For other magical items, it depends on the price point. Cheaper ones like cleaning brooms may be treated as normal shop items, but more expensive ones are speciality items and treated as such. Keep in mind that the average labourer only makes a few silver a day, so when something costs hundreds of silver we're talking about months of a labourer's wages. These are not things likely to be sold in high volumes. So the local alchemist may have a few magical potions in stock in case someone with money needs them right now, but if you need more than a couple, you're going to have to put in a special order and wait for them to be brewed. Same deal with blood charms and other expensive, low demand magical items, unless you're in a big city, you're likely to have to commission them.