Spliced Weave problems [RESOLVED]

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Mataxes
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Re: Spliced Weave

Post by Mataxes » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:57 am

The Undying wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:33 am
That being said, I still believe this is a bad TALENT if it only begs for a couple Ranks. That doesn't mean it's fundamentally flawed, but I really think there should be a reason to get this to Rank 15. If you give the players a reason to do that, my objections to this as a Talent would be completely removed. Maybe you've already got one as a Knack and we just don't know it. If you don't, there's still plenty of time, although maybe the Talent would need a renaming (a la "Chain Magic" or "Multi-Magic").
Put simply, Spliced Weave is the "Claw Frenzy" of Thread Weaving (a Simple action instead of Standard, but the principle is the same). That is, you use the Spliced Weave talent Step to (try to) weave a number of threads up to a limit of the rank in Spliced Weave.

So, if you only have one rank, it's no better than regular thread weaving.

I understand what your concern is with regard to "only needing a few ranks" because a spell only has so many, but keep in mind the combo build you can get when you factor in Concise Casting (which has had any references to thread limits for a spell cast with it removed in the most recent builds).

This means the limit you've imposed should be effectively doubled. Because you can (assuming you make the tests) use it to weave threads for two spells. Want to cast two instances of Razor Orb in a single round, each maximum extra threads for a Master (so 7 threads each)? Spliced Weave combined with Concise Casting lets you do that. You need Spliced Weave at Rank 14... (for the 14 total threads you have), but it can be done.

Simple Action: Spliced Weave 14 threads to weave the threads (7 each) for two instances of the spell.
Standard Action: Spellcasting for the first instance of the spell.
Simple Action: Concise Casting for the second instance of the spell.

Now, admittedly, you aren't likely to need that much all at once very often... but you can.
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The Undying
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Re: Spliced Weave

Post by The Undying » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:05 am

Mataxes wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:57 am
This means the limit you've imposed should be effectively doubled. Because you can (assuming you make the tests) use it to weave threads for two spells. Want to cast two instances of Razor Orb in a single round, each maximum extra threads for a Master (so 7 threads each)? Spliced Weave combined with Concise Casting lets you do that. You need Spliced Weave at Rank 14... (for the 14 total threads you have), but it can be done.
It seems like there's more to the Talent that wasn't communicated in the previews. Based on what you're saying here, it sounds like you need one Spliced Weave Rank per thread woven. That doesn't come across, only "make up to Rank Threadweaving tests." All my examples have been based off a "you only need maybe three Threadweaving tests to get those 14 threads woven, meaning you only need Spliced Weave Rank 3."

Are you willing to just provide the as-is text for the Talent? If you do that, I think you'll both end-run my remaining questions and demonstrate that additional ranks have value, thereby closing this thread.

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The Undying
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Re: Spliced Weave

Post by The Undying » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:17 am

Barring access to the text, my outstanding questions are:
  • (To be clear I'm reading you correctly)If I want to weave 14 threads, and can easily achieve that over four Threadweaving tests, but I only have Spliced Weave Rank 4, I cannot achieve the 14 threads because I am limited to 4 threads when using Spliced Weave at this Rank - is this correct?
  • If I want to weave 14 threads, and can easily achieve that over four Threadweaving tests, and I have Spliced Weave Rank 14:
    • How much does the Spliced Weave cost [Strain per Threadweaving test rolled or Strain per thread to be achieved]?
    • How many Threadweaving tests are made [if I have to pay for 14, then I can keep rolling until I achieve 14 successes, but if I can guess that it will only take 4 and only pay for 4 Threadweaving test, can I achieve those 14 threads in just 4 tests assuming I get sufficient successes]?

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The Undying
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Re: Spliced Weave problems [RESOLVED]

Post by The Undying » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:22 am

Would be good to get 100% clarification, but based on what Mataxes has said above, I think the "Spliced Weave is a bad Talent" problem has been resolved: there's 100% a reason to increase Rank, making it very much a Talent rather than a Knack. I edited the first post for completeness, in case anyone comes along later and tries to read the thread from scratch.

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Re: Spliced Weave

Post by Tattered Rags » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:20 am

Mataxes wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:57 am
Put simply, Spliced Weave is the "Claw Frenzy" of Thread Weaving (a Simple action instead of Standard, but the principle is the same). That is, you use the Spliced Weave talent Step to (try to) weave a number of threads up to a limit of the rank in Spliced Weave.
(emphasis added)

Clarification, please, are we rolling Spliced Weave or our Discipline's Threadweaving for these threads?
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Re: Spliced Weave

Post by Mataxes » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:26 am

Tattered Rags wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:20 am
Mataxes wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:57 am
Put simply, Spliced Weave is the "Claw Frenzy" of Thread Weaving (a Simple action instead of Standard, but the principle is the same). That is, you use the Spliced Weave talent Step to (try to) weave a number of threads up to a limit of the rank in Spliced Weave.
(emphasis added)

Clarification, please, are we rolling Spliced Weave or our Discipline's Threadweaving for these threads?
Discipline Thread Weaving. (Sorry. Brain fart. Do you realize how much stuff I have to keep in my head? It's crowded in here!)

Spliced Weave is just a Rank that sets a limit on Simple action Thread Weaving. But it otherwise works as I described it.

(As it stands at this moment... Everything we've previewed is still subject to change and tweaking... etc. etc.)

(Yes, this includes Plant Talk as a Discipline talent.)
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Re: Spliced Weave

Post by Tattered Rags » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:37 am

Truncating quote for "brevity's" sake.
Mataxes wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:26 am
Discipline...fart...head?
Thanks for the clarification!
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Re: Spliced Weave

Post by The Undying » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:40 am

Mataxes wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:26 am
Spliced Weave is just a Rank that sets a limit on Simple action Thread Weaving. But it otherwise works as I described it.
Mataxes wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:57 am
That is, you use the Spliced Weave talent Step to (try to) weave a number of threads up to a limit of the rank in Spliced Weave.
Not trying to beat you up, just trying to make sure I get a clear picture: Spliced Weave Rank is both (a) number of Simple Action Thread Weaving tests that can be done, AND (b) number of successes that can be achieved over all those tests? Second quote suggests A + B. First quote suggests just A.
Mataxes wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:26 am
(As it stands at this moment... Everything we've previewed is still subject to change and tweaking... etc. etc.)

(Yes, this includes Plant Talk as a Discipline talent.)
Glad to hear this. As I said in some other thread, wasn't sure if the previews were meant explicitly as a "sneak peek" or a "hey, here's what we're planning, but there's still room for changes if necessary, so speak up [respectfully]".

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Re: Spliced Weave

Post by etherial » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:30 pm

The Undying wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:40 am
Glad to hear this. As I said in some other thread, wasn't sure if the previews were meant explicitly as a "sneak peek" or a "hey, here's what we're planning, but there's still room for changes if necessary, so speak up [respectfully]".
The experience so far with the FASA Games Crew has been:

1. They post several completed chapters of the book in a Kickstarter Update.
2. Backers beat the shit out of it.
3. They update those chapters in the manuscript and post the full text of the book in a Kickstarter Update.
4. Backers beat the shit out of it.
5. They update the chapters with (many of) the changes we've suggested and art and post the very nearly final print of the book in a Kickstarter Update.
6. Backers beat the shit out of it.
7. The book is printed.

Off the top of my head, some of the changes made have been:
Changing the order of chapters in the Players' Guide
Changing the name of several Players' Guide Talents
Changing how Free Spell Matrices work
Consolidating Creature Maneuvers and Powers

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Re: Spliced Weave

Post by Dougansf » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:19 pm

Mataxes wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:57 am
This means the limit you've imposed should be effectively doubled. Because you can (assuming you make the tests) use it to weave threads for two spells. Want to cast two instances of Razor Orb in a single round, each maximum extra threads for a Master (so 7 threads each)? Spliced Weave combined with Concise Casting lets you do that. You need Spliced Weave at Rank 14... (for the 14 total threads you have), but it can be done.

Simple Action: Spliced Weave 14 threads to weave the threads (7 each) for two instances of the spell.
Standard Action: Spellcasting for the first instance of the spell.
Simple Action: Concise Casting for the second instance of the spell.

Now, admittedly, you aren't likely to need that much all at once very often... but you can.
Having access to the Preview, I did miss the fact that Spliced Weave was a Simple action. Thanks for pointing that out. This talent sounds a LOT better now.

That said, rereading it now, I can't see a limitation on the number of threads you can weave with Spliced Weave. I'm not sure what to make of that. I think it's a good limitation, but at the same time, pretty restrictive compared to what they could probably do with a single Threadweaving test.

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