Dumb Questions

Discussion on playing Earthdawn. Experiences, stories, and questions related to being a player.
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The Undying
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Re: Dumb Questions

Post by The Undying » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:22 am

Hm, actually ...

Just noticed the skill test information you provided "Skill Use: The non-magical version of this talent requires one week of time to pass
between tests to improve the animal’s attitude beyond Neutral." This DEFINITELY makes it clear that the time limit only applies for tests to move the animal above Neutral. By that turn, I'd have to go back on my previous thought and say that Talent-spam until Neutral is viable.

I guess the intent is that the animal is dangerous (hostile) while the Talent/skill is in use, implying risk to the Adept while they use it?

Slimcreeper
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Re: Dumb Questions

Post by Slimcreeper » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:21 pm

I used to play with this one warrior who would talent spam Melee Weapons until the opponents stopped fighting back. I was like, "Thank you very munchkin, dude."

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Kosmit
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Re: Dumb Questions

Post by Kosmit » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:33 pm

Spamming until success is always a problem but only in outside combat situations because you always have a chance of success with exploding dice.

Some talents have limit, some would be useless with a limit (imagine a fight with only one melee weapons and damage test allowed xD Quick but boring) and there is this grey area like lockpicking or research that you can spam until success...

Tattered Rags
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Re: Dumb Questions

Post by Tattered Rags » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:34 pm

Kosmit wrote:...there is this grey area like lockpicking or research that you can spam until success...
You can't spam Research. If you fail, it means you didn't find anything. You have to come up with a new tactic in order to reroll (like this time asking the librarian, or something).

Failed lockpicking doesn't always have a consequence, but it takes time. Guards could wander by, traps set off, or even the lock broken if really bad failure.
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The Undying
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Re: Dumb Questions

Post by The Undying » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:34 pm

Slimcreeper wrote:I used to play with this one warrior who would talent spam Melee Weapons until the opponents stopped fighting back. I was like, "Thank you very munchkin, dude."
Might wanna go back and reread your manual man. Pretty sure all Talents are limited to either once per day or once per year and a day. :evil:

PiXeL01
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Re: Dumb Questions

Post by PiXeL01 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:41 am

Maybe I was more puzzled by the Dominate Beast then Animal Bond combination. Seems too easy.
Go find a Behemoth, dominate and then try to bond. Run within the last minute if you fail your bond 60 times in a row.

But if it is as intended I'll accept that and keep it as a learning experience with the system.

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The Undying
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Re: Dumb Questions

Post by The Undying » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:30 am

I think there are some goods ways to penalize failure that are still perfectly within the realm of reasonable. For example, Animal Bond makes absolutely zero note of what use of the Talent/Skill implies. Since no stipulation is provided, one could reasonably infer that there are no specific conditions for use other than reasonable (e.g., must be able to see the creature). However, I think it's perfectly reasonable that the Talent be made "Range: Touch" - the Adept must actually interact with the creature in order to build that bond. This is SIGNIFICANTLY dangerous against a hostile creature, unless said creature is sedated, bound, or incapacitated. One round of failure essentially equals an attack by the creature.

If this sounds good, I'd recommend talking with your player and asking if they're willing to accept this house rule. Retroactive changes to Talents/Skills always suck, especially for Option Talents or Skills, because a player may not have gotten said Talent/Skill, or invested in it as heavily, given that change. However, Earthdawn is really about telling an interesting story, which requires building drama, and danger/risk is an important part of that recipe. Being forced to put your hands on a hostile creature that could snap your skull in twain if your fail is MUCH for exciting that staring a hostile creature down from across an massive field or on the other side of a fine-mesh fence.

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Re: Dumb Questions

Post by Tattered Rags » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:52 am

Every movie or show ever where a character attempts to placate a beast reaches their hand out to touch the animal's head and says, "Easy, girl, easy. I'm not gonna hurt'chya." Sometimes they get bitten, sometimes not. This is Animal Bonding.

Except Crocodile Dundee. He does that thing with his hand and makes that noise.

Regarding Dominate Beast, it could be a reasonable assumption to say that a Dominated animal cannot be Bonded with as their minds are not completely their own.

Or not, it's probably not a big deal, and the rules don't say anything about it.
Last edited by Tattered Rags on Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Undying
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Re: Dumb Questions

Post by The Undying » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:23 am

I'm okay with either variant on the Dominate Beast + Animal Bond thing. Makes sense to me to say that you can't use one after the other since you can't bond with an animal acting under compulsion. Also makes sense to just say "this is a design space where stacked abilities make things easier," of which there are plenty other examples. If a GM finds the former appealing, though, I just again recommend either using it out of the gate and ensuring players know or having a conversation with existing players with these abilities or with access to them to ensure they're okay with the changes.

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Re: Dumb Questions

Post by Mataxes » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:57 am

It's not in the rules, and this is not intended as official errata or anything... just an off-the-cuff thought.

I would be inclined to have an animal that was subject to Dominate Beast have their attitude negatively shifted toward the person dominating them, which could make using Animal Bond harder.

In general (for me), the assumption is that a wild animal (as opposed to a standard dog, horse, etc) is probably Unfriendly toward the adept, and the talent shifts that up one step to Neutral. If the animal is more negatively inclined... I would bring to bear a need for extra successes. (On top of any that might be needed as a result of traits like Willful.)

This is mainly because of the how the talents reflect two potential approaches you are likely to see in Beastmasters; those who seek to dominate and control animals, and those who want to build positive relationships with them.
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