ChrisDDickey wrote:I don't think that you can look at what Avoid Blow does not let you do, and use it as a guide for what Avoid Blow enhanced by Displace Image will not let you do.
I cannot follow this logic. "Thing X does thing Y. Thing Q helps you do thing Y better." Pretty sure that anyone would expect that Y basically does the same thing, with the same limitations, unless Q tells you otherwise. Adding an insole to your shoes does not make you magically able to clip through the floor.
ChrisDDickey wrote:I still say that as the spell is written, there is little or no reason to ever cast Displace Self unless you are ALSO casting another spell to give you a bonus to your avoid blow talent.
I think you are way over-analyzing this. Assume that a Wizard keeps their Avoid Blow (AB) Rank at about their Circle; for sake of argument, we'll say Circle 8 -> AB 8. Wizards aren't necessarily the most dexterous Disciplie, but we'll give him a DEX Step of 6, giving him a AB Step of 14. Now, let's set them up against a Warrior of the same Circle. Very likely that warrior will also have their Melee Weapon (MW) Rank at about their Circle, so we'll say MW 8. Warriors don't HAVE to be the most dexterous of Disciplines, but for giggles, we'll give him a DEX Step 7, giving him a MW Step of 15. So, at this point, we have an ENTIRELY REASONABLE AB 14 versus MW 15. I'm setting aside a lot of variables that could come into play here, but the example is still valid. A 1 Step difference is pretty negligible, so I'd say it is PERFECTLY reasonable to cast Displace Self without nesting it with another spell. Is it better to stack as many bonus as possible? Yes, of course? Lack of a bonus make this spell useless? Unequivocally no, but your Wizard is entirely within his right to never learn it, or never cast it if he knows it.
Plus, in the old thread, we entirely went over a great reason to use Displace Self, regardless of other spells improving AB: avoiding multiple attacks thanks to the movement provided by Displace Self.
ChrisDDickey wrote:It is kind of funny that the undying said that he did not want Displace Self to usurp or completely replace use of Dodge Boost, saying that there are very few examples of spells completely overshadowing earlier circle spells, and that as it is Wizards have two spells that enhance Avoid Blow. The funny thing is that wizards actually have three: Dodge Boost, Displace Self, and Energy Shield. Energy Shield is that spell immediately after Displace Self in the book, and it completely usurps Dodge Boosts role, overshadowing it in every way (except that it can not be used by characters wielding two weapons).
I understand that the forum migration might make quoting a bit difficult, but I hate partial quotations when the rest of the text matters. I think that's part of what's wrong with the entire news speel going on in the US right now. But I digress ...
In that same post, I make note that there are spells that smell and act very similar to prior spells but have sufficient change to make them not usurp the former. Energy Shield and Dodge Boost falls into this category. Dodge Boost provides a flat AB bonus with zero conditions. Energy Shield provides a greater AB boost, as well as a Steel Thought boost, with the requirement that one hand be free in order to manifest the shield. This is a HUGE different. The Wizard's companion Warrior will LOVE receiving Dodge Boost, but they're not gonna be happy about having to ditch their two-handed weapon in favor of Energy Shield. Additionally, while this is definitely a situational thing, that hand still has to be sufficiently free with Energy shield; lose mobility in that hand for any variety of reasons, and you lose the benefit.
Finally, when comparing this to the "Air Armor versus Ironskin" entry I made, we're in a different situation here because of the thread bonus structs on these Wizard spells. Dodge Boost gives +2 AB for 0 threads, with an extra thread providing +2; meanwhile, Energy Shield provides +4 AB and an occasional +4 ST, all for 1 thread, with extra threads still providing +2. With one extra thread, Dodge Boost provides the lion share of the benefits of Energy Shield (+4 AB), without the restriction of handedness, and Dodge Boost can still be cast faster at that 0 thread to boot. If it sounds like I'm providing conflicting information in the "Air Armor versus Ironskin" comparison, I don't feel I am: Ironskin provides the same base bonus (+3) to an additional two facets (Wound Threshold and Knockback) with no additional constraints or conditions at the cost of going from 0 base threads to 1, and extra threads on both spells only providing +1 bonus.
So, is Energy Shield better than Dodge Boost when that hand loss isn't an issue? Yes, most definitely. Will this be an issue in most case? No, probably not. But does Energy Shield usurp Dodge Boost? No, most definitely not, that condition change is huge.
ChrisDDickey wrote:But if you can only find a place in your matrixes for one Avoid Blow enhancer, it must be Energy Shield.
For YOU, it "must" be Energy Shield, but I wouldn't recommend trying to lay that statement like fact. People should play their way, settings and house rules make things significantly different, different situations call for different capabilities, and different party compositions require different approaches.
For example, let us take an entirely reasonable party composition where the Wizard is the only person who has AB. Might be a little unorthodoxed, but it could happen. After all, only the following Disciplines have AB as a Discipline Talent: Air Sailor, Archer, Beastmaster, Swordmaster, and Warrior. So, you are saying that a Wizard MUST run around with a spell that provides no meaningful bonus to his companions? (Let's face it, +4 AB is pretty mediocre if you aren't invested in the Talent otherwise) Let's follow this a bit further and assume that the Wizard likes to get into the thick of things and so has invested in his AB above his Circle (which you see sometimes for various Disciplines with various Talents). Now, his base AB Step is over the base Step for most close/ranged combat attacks he's likely going to encounter. You're saying that the Wizard MUST still run with a spell that further enhances that bonus versus one that might save him from taking multiple roungs of Strain?