The Undying wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:55 am
I assure you that Elementalist gets access to both Wind Catcher and Gliding Stride, meaning that there is far more chance occurrence of overlap here than you credit.
You are of course correct. In the book there happens to be a line break between "Wind" and "Catcher" in the Elementalist novice talent description, so when I searched for "Wind Catcher" it did not come up. So it is not unlikely that some Elementalists will pick both, and thus not nearly the unlikely edge case I was imagioning.
But the twin facts remain that the Gliding Stride can only reduce the amount of the fall by Rank x 2. And the disciplines that are most likely to fall from very great heights, Air Sailors and Sky Raiders, do have access to Wind Catcher and don't have Discipline access to Gliding Stride. It thus seems strange to me that the talent that Air Sailors and Sky Raiders have that allows jumping from great heights in retaliative safety does not also protect somewhat for falling from heights. (Griffin Riding Beastmasters and Cavalrymen don't have discipline access to ether (in the first 8 circles at least), but they are widely regarded as ether very heroic, or very crazy).
I would not say that a Wind Catcher test made 6 seconds after falling was reactive rather than proactive. After no more than 6 seconds of falling the Adept gains a standard action, I see no reason why they could not spend it upon a Wind Catcher test in a proactive manor (as opposed to being able to use it when he starts to fall as a free reaction).
Personally, I would not allow multiple sequential usages of Wind Catcher. The talent talks about being used while falling to control the fall. Nowhere does it say anything to suggest that the Adept is considered to be anything other than falling the entire time (assuming that both "decent" and "plummeting" are merely descriptive modifications of "falling"), and the talent can be used to safely fall from a maximum height of Rank x 100 yards. What I was suggesting is that it takes time to fall, and an Adept is going to gain access to a standard action after the first 200 yards of freefall. This means several things. (1) An Adept who does not Wind Catcher 200 yards or more, does not have a standard action available when/as they land. (2) An Adept who does Wind Catcher 200 yards or more does have a standard action available When/as they land (Down Strike with a vengeance). (3) An Adept who did not have a Standard Action when they fell, could gain a Standard Action sometime within their first 200 yards, and could potentially use that Standard Action on a Wind Catcher test, possibly gaining control of their fall at that point. However the total length of the fall for purposes of seeing if the Talent can protect the Adept from falling damages is from where he started to fall and to where he lands. He only needs to take a Standard Action to make the test sometime between those two points but whether he makes the test at the top of the fall or the middle does not affect how far he can safely fall. And having made the test does not mean he is not still in a (controlled) fall.
I am not a big fan of the "we must forbid this, otherwise people will argue that" school of thought. For reasons I explained above, I don't think that allowing Wind Catcher use mid fall in any way implies that multiple sequential usages will work to extend it's range.
One question that is kind of open in my mind is whether an Adept who fails a test at the top of a jump that is more than 200 yards can make a 2nd test at 200 yards. The argument on the "No" side is that it says "plummets to the ground", implying that there is not another chance before impacting the ground. The argument on the "Yes" side is that it says "Possibly taking damage". Since even a 2 yard fall results in step 5 damage that armor does not mitigate, the word "possibly" indicates that an adept falling for a sufficiently long time and with sufficiently high ranks in Wind Catcher might be able to attempt multiple tests to save himself.
Your point about making each fall a "cinematic fall", wherein the characters always "mostly falls" but manages to catch himself by his fingertips for a short time, giving others one action to save him, and he only looses his grip and really falls if he has not been saved by his next action, could be expanded to allow a person with Wind Catcher to always use his NEXT standard action to wind fall. I like that, but it seems like it ought to be a table rule that that is what will almost always happen.
The only problem (if it is considered a problem) with the "cinematic fall" rules is that it makes it actually impossible for a conscious windling or other flying creature to suffer falling damage. You shoot it with an arrow, it fails it's knockdown test, it starts to "fall". The creature gets it's action and ether jumps up or "stands up", no test required. I am sure that PC windlings would count that as a plus. Archers would count it as a bug.
Like I said, I thought Wind Catcher prevented falling damage and would prove generally useful in certain situations I was envisioning. However most of them involved taking a standard action, and still being able to wind catcher.
It seems like, as written, Wind Catcher has only 3 usage cases.
(1) Someone on a plummeting airship that is about to crash and is not knocked down and has an action can throw themselves off of the airship when it gets low enough to the ground that they can (hopefully) Wind Catcher to the ground in safety. You could probably add falling bridges, Avalanches upon snowy mountain ledges and burning towers to this category. In all cases the Adept would be separating themself from the rest of his party and leaving them to their own fate.
(2) Sky Raiders (and Air Sailors and Elementalists) can attempt precise aerial assaults. Note that this case assumes that there are enough people with this talent to form an effective Raiding Party. If only one or two people have it, then use of this talent simply separates them from their backup. In most cases it would be better to simply wait an go in with everybody else rather than arriving alone so much earlier.
(3) You want to climb down from somewhere, and you don't have rope, climbing skill, or Great Leap. You are also not worried about having to climb back up. Wind Catcher could be very useful in circumstances such as these, but I can't think of very many times where these circumstances have held.
So yes, you are right. I am disappointed that this is not a tool I actually have a use for. I thought it was going to be a very cool tool, and now I am disappointed to realize it is not.