+1 CIAO

[Slimcreeper]

So I have an ork NPC scout who's gahad is that she becomes enraged whenever someone belittles ork accomplishments or the contributions of scouts. So would her companions not just mock her abilities before sending her out to track a target or attack a foe? Would she not, in fact, get +1 CIAO (+1 'Cause I'm An Ork)?

What if a player had a similar gahad? How would you handle it? How do you handle gahad in general?

[Mataxes]

Two things, as I see it.

The ork would get upset and focus her gahad on the companions taunting her since they are the source of the provocation.

It's kind of a jerk thing to do (for a fairly minor bonus), and would probably drive the scout in question to leave the group.

[utsukushi]

First of all, I'd note the line that "Gahad is not intended to be a game mechanic giving orks a test bonus on every flimsy excuse." Obvious munchkining is obvious, and I think as GM, I'd just say - no, it doesn't work like that. She can still roleplay being determined to prove herself, but it's not going to be mechanically supported. The players have already stepped outside the system in gaming it like that, so you can step outside the system to address it.

Alternately, taking Mataxes's points a step further, if this does happen regularly and the Ork doesn't either act directly against the party in response, or leave the game (because of course, her player is enjoying the bonus) -- then the obvious conclusion is that it's not really bothering her that much. It's not spelled out as clearly in 4e, but it is still noted that, as when Gahad was first given mechanical weight, there are situations that tend to trigger it... and circumstances in which they don't.

So apparently it's turned out that her gahad is, "Whenever someone belittles ork accomplishments or the contributions of scouts... except when it's my friends and I know they have my back."

In which case, maybe it can work once or twice, but then one of those two paths has to take over. Either the bonus applies for punching her friends, or intentionally leading them astray, or something -- or she accepts that they don't mean it and it doesn't get to her.

[utsukushi]

So, on a related note...

I'm building an Ork Cavalryman, but she's not the typical Scorcher-type. She was an innkeeper's daughter. So, she's still an Ork, and always ready for a good tussle, but she doesn't have the full culture of violence that Ork PCs (and especially Ork Cavalryman PCs) tend to. She is, on the whole, actually pretty gentle for an Ork. Not weak, just... kind. More protective than forceful.

I'm having a hard time picking her Gahad triggers. "Seeing someone disrespecting an animal in their care" fits her well. It feels a little cliche, but it works for her for more than the super-obvious reasons.

But I need another one, and I'm not finding much in the way of examples anywhere. I've been digging around online to see if anyone has ever done, like, a list of gahad suggestions, and I couldn't find anything. Not even on Panda's site. Does anyone know of anything like that?

[Lys]

Have her Gahad trigger when she sees people abusing those weaker than them, particularly if the abuser has been entrusted with the victim's care. It should fit her with protective nature, and dovetails with her anger against people who disrespect their animals.

[The Undying]

The previous Editions' Player Companions had expanded information on the races and disciplines. Anyone know if those provided more guidance on what are "suitable" Gahad? Separately, any indication that the ED4 Companion will have expanded racial information for the players?

Just upgraded to a new phone so all my gaming PDFs haven't been refreshed...

[The Undying]

Turns out I was thinking of Denizens of Earthdawn (Volume Two for Orks). It does have a section on Gahad, but it's all flavor, nothing really to help lead a player trying to find out more.

It is worthwhile to note that, at least in Denizens, there's a reminder that Gahad can make someone do good or bad, not just "bad." So, while the "somebody needs a thrashin'" Gahad gets a lot of attention, seems like there's a very fertile ground for non-violent Gahads. Seeing the suffering of the hungry or poor, not at the ends of a tyrant but simply because of ill luck, could be viable. But, I also could just be reading more into it.

[utsukushi]

Have her Gahad trigger when she sees people abusing those weaker than them, particularly if the abuser has been entrusted with the victim's care. It should fit her with protective nature, and dovetails with her anger against people who disrespect their animals.

I like that, but it feels like it's really the same as people disrespecting animals, just a little bit broader.

It is worthwhile to note that, at least in Denizens, there's a reminder that Gahad can make someone do good or bad, not just "bad." So, while the "somebody needs a thrashin'" Gahad gets a lot of attention, seems like there's a very fertile ground for non-violent Gahads.

That's... a really interesting point, though. "Desire or fury", "Anything that makes an Ork want to do something, good or bad"...

That really suggests it just has to be a powerful emotional impulse; it doesn't have to be a drive to violence. So feeling gahad to help the helpless could help her if we're, like, rescuing someone, but would also mean she'd be compelled to give coins or food to beggars and wouldn't be able to pass by seeing someone cornered in an alley... which are all things I wanted her to do, and expands on Lys's suggestion enough to make it a different impulse.

That's awesome, Undying! Thank you for pointing that out. You're right, I've never heard of it being applied as anything but violence -- and the description in the 4e book, with their "Drive to eradicate the situation" or "take revenge," really encourage that. I'll talk to my GM and see if he'll accept that reading, or if he sees it as an `earlier edition' or something. That really opens up a whole new world of possibilities to think about.

[Slimcreeper]

I _really_ like the idea of non-violent gahad impulses.

[Mataxes]

Orks are passionate, which is -- sadly -- often interpreted as 'violent' in the eyes of those who don't understand.

The text about gahad in the Player's Guide could be a bit broader in its explanation.