Key Knowledges

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Jaracove
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Key Knowledges

Post by Jaracove » Sun May 21, 2017 7:20 am

Just to clarify, there's only one key knowledge per thread rank of a magic item?

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Mataxes
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Re: Key Knowledges

Post by Mataxes » Sun May 21, 2017 3:25 pm

I don't quite understand the question.

Are you asking if there can be more than one? For example, at Rank 3 you can learn either the name of the Weaponsmith that made the sword, or the Warrior that it was made for? Either works, but you don't need both?

Because if that's the case, no. There has never been any example of an item like that, and it kind of goes against the theory of how thread magic unlocks an item's potential.
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Jaracove
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Re: Key Knowledges

Post by Jaracove » Sun May 21, 2017 9:23 pm

Mataxes wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 3:25 pm
Are you asking if there can be more than one? For example, at Rank 3 you can learn either the name of the Weaponsmith that made the sword, or the Warrior that it was made for? Either works, but you don't need both?
This is the sort of thing I was asking about.

Thank you

Jaracove
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Re: Key Knowledges

Post by Jaracove » Mon May 22, 2017 7:21 pm

Page 229: Research

Up until now, I've read about Pattern Items, how to obtain them, how to use Item History to find out the Test Knowledge about them, and how to weave threads to them. Ok no problem. Then I read the following and I'm unsure of what it means:

"By researching the history and activities of a True Pattern, it is possible to obtain its Research Knowledges."

What's the difference between researching a True Pattern's Pattern Item and researching a True Pattern?

If I succeed at Research do I find the Test Knowledge of the True Pattern?

What is Research Knowledge exactly?

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RazanMG
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Re: Key Knowledges

Post by RazanMG » Mon May 22, 2017 11:27 pm

Its always researching knowledge about True Pattern.
Thread Item is its own pattern item.
People, Places can have pattern items that are part of their True Paterns.

Test Knowledge is a question like : what is its Name? Item History is to learn Test Knowledge.
Research Knowledge is answer to that question: Excalibur.
You can learn Research Knowledge (if GM wants it) by reading old tomes in library (Research test), or in adventures.

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Mataxes
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Re: Key Knowledges

Post by Mataxes » Tue May 23, 2017 1:12 am

Jaracove wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 7:21 pm
What's the difference between researching a True Pattern's Pattern Item and researching a True Pattern?
If you're talking about traditional magic items (swords, armor, miscellaneous stuff), not anything significant from a practical standpoint. But...

Magical power in Earthdawn is mostly related to the expression of patterns. Magically unique things have True Patterns. By connecting their True Pattern to another True Pattern, an adept can manipulate their relationship with it, enhancing their abilities.

A pattern item is the connection, the conduit through which the magical energy of the bond flows. For standard thread items, that is the item itself. For people and (Named) places, it is a separate item that usually has some kind of physical, symbolic, or spiritual relationship to its connected True Pattern. If you have the item and know how or why it's important, you can manipulate your relationship to the other True Pattern, just as you can with thread items.

In order to do this -- whether a traditional thread item, or the more esoteric applications against people and places -- you need to know why the item is magically important. Essentially, you have a question (the test knowledge), and the answer (the research knowledge).
If I succeed at Research do I find the Test Knowledge of the True Pattern?

What is Research Knowledge exactly?
Test Knowledge is the question: What is the bow's Name? Who made the sword? It is learned mainly through the Item History talent.

The Research Knowledge is the answer to the question: The bow is Named Nioku's Bow. The sword was made by Andriss Resselar. It is learned through research -- whether in a library, exploration, or some other method, the person seeking to weave the thread must find the answer. Sometimes it's easy... sometimes not so much.
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Jaracove
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Re: Key Knowledges

Post by Jaracove » Tue May 23, 2017 7:43 am

Thanks all

"By researching the history and activities of a True Pattern, it is possible to obtain its Research Knowledges."

So I can use the Research talent to uncover the name of a bow (the bow is a True Pattern?), which in this example is Nioku.

Page 226: "A Pattern Item acts as a conduit to another True Pattern, allowing the connection to be made."

If this is true, what do I need a Pattern Item for? I thought you needed one

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Page 227: “Each Pattern Item holds one Key Knowledge about a True Pattern.

A related question - if a pattern item holds one key knowledge about a true pattern and the true pattern has 5 key knowledges, don’t you need 5 pattern items to uncover all of its powers, or is that what the Research talent is used for?

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Re: Key Knowledges

Post by Slimcreeper » Tue May 23, 2017 11:33 am

When something has a significant history with magic and a True Name, it acquires a True Pattern. My backyard doesn't have a True Pattern, but Kratas, the city of thieves, does. The cookies I picked up from Trader Joe's don't have a True Pattern, but the silvered dish I use to summon water elementals does.

Pattern Items are for weaving threads to people or places. If you have a Pattern Item for Kratas, for example the gem that acted as one of the foci for the citadel's defenses, you could use it to weave a thread to Kratas boosting your, say, physical defense whenever you are in the city. [Does the thread connect your pattern to the gem to the city's pattern?] A pattern item has no powers or benefits other than its relationship to the place or person.

Thread Items are magical items that you can power by tying a thread directly from yourself to the item. You use Item History to find out the Test Knowledge (which should be called the Question), then use research or adventure to find out the Research Knowledge.

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Mataxes
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Re: Key Knowledges

Post by Mataxes » Tue May 23, 2017 12:57 pm

Jaracove wrote:
Tue May 23, 2017 7:43 am
Thanks all

"By researching the history and activities of a True Pattern, it is possible to obtain its Research Knowledges."

So I can use the Research talent to uncover the name of a bow (the bow is a True Pattern?), which in this example is Nioku.
Yes, though that isn't the only way to learn the information.
Page 226: "A Pattern Item acts as a conduit to another True Pattern, allowing the connection to be made."

If this is true, what do I need a Pattern Item for? I thought you needed one
You need the pattern item to make the connection, and you need to have it on you in order to take advantage of the connection. So, if I find a pattern item for the leader of the Order of Night (for example, the ceremonial dagger used in his initiation ceremony), I can use that item to create a connection between my True Pattern and his, giving me bonuses when interacting with him (for example, increased Mystic Defense so I can more effectively resist his spells). But I need to have the dagger with me -- I can't leave it locked up at home.
Page 227: “Each Pattern Item holds one Key Knowledge about a True Pattern.

A related question - if a pattern item holds one key knowledge about a true pattern and the true pattern has 5 key knowledges, don’t you need 5 pattern items to uncover all of its powers, or is that what the Research talent is used for?
Thread items work a little bit differently from thread magic used on Named people or places. The thread item acts as its own pattern item, and contains the information for multiple key knowledges.

Named people and places might have multiple pattern items (though they don't need to), each containing one relevant key knowledge.
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Jaracove
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Re: Key Knowledges

Post by Jaracove » Tue May 23, 2017 3:14 pm

Confused to the point I don't even know what exactly is causing the confusion

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