Lifestyles of the rich and the others

Discussion on playing Earthdawn. Experiences, stories, and questions related to being a player.
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Slimcreeper
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Lifestyles of the rich and the others

Post by Slimcreeper » Mon May 01, 2017 5:25 pm

Hey - I'm working on this, because I hate roleplaying paying up the tab at the end of a night of carousing. The goal is to make the finances kind of a mini-game that doesn't take up much time but provides for adventurers that are invested in the world - literally. In this system, they could describe their living situation, their outfits, buy a round at a bar, and not really worry too much about the details. I'm not really a numbers guy, so I could use some help with the economy.

Lifestyle
To cut down on bookkeeping, each month the player chooses the lifestyle his player lives. This covers room & board, drinks, clothes, hansom cabs, tents and draft animals when traveling, and so on. GM discretion is required - an occasional night out is covered, for example, but it should be appropriate to the lifestyle. A peasant might have a pint or two at a tavern; a merchant might have a dinner party, royalty might have a ceremonial feast. Each level has a certain influence on how people see the character. Individual NPCs may have a different attitude towards the PCs than the default, and PCs are in charge of their own attitudes. The names of each category are meant to give a feel for the type of person that typically lives that lifestyle, but aren’t prescriptive. A character could totally be a down-on-her-luck princess living a Poor lifestyle.

To increase a lifestyle level, the player must pay a one-time investment of 10x the desired lifestyle’s monthly cost. This represents buying that dream house, bribing authorities, updating his or her wardrobe, investing in businesses, attending the right parties, and so on. If the player can’t pay the cost for a month, the player drops by one level. If the player's organization loses money that the player can't cover, the player drops one level. To avoid this, the player must secure a loan, typically a large favor, from someone who can cover it.

If a character has a budget for retainers, total the monthly expenses for all retainers. For example, a Merchant has 45 silver/month, which would be one Working Poor or three Poor retainers. The PC cannot choose to not have a retainer and pocket the money. If the character is also connected to a revenue-generating organization, there are certainly other people working for the PC, but they have full-time jobs and are not always at the PC’s disposal.

A PC can emulate a different lifestyle through the use of disguises and social skills and talents, but may require spending up to the monthly cost of the desired lifestyle, at the GM’s discretion, and the effect lasts only for one social situation, such as a party or criminal trial.



Poor - 15 silver/month.
  • Lives a nomadic lifestyle, in slums, or flophouses, or as subsistence farmers.
    As a retainer may be a porter or housekeeper
    Travels with only the stuff on his or her back.
    All NPCs have a starting view of Unfriendly. There is a 10% chance each month of being robbed, either by pickpockets, brigands, or burglars.
Working Poor - 45 silver/month.
  • Lives in neighborhoods, villages or on small farms in rented properties, or in a nomadic tribe.
    As a retainer may be a cook, driver, butler, or simple guard.
    Travels with only the stuff on his or her back.
    All NPCs except for poor have a starting view of Unfriendly. There is a 5% chance each month of being robbed.
Working Class - 60 silver/month.
  • Lives in neighborhoods, villages, on small farms, or a part of a successful nomadic tribe. Either owns property, or is protected by long custom against eviction.
    As retainer, is skilled labor - accountant, mercenary, blacksmith, etc.
    Travels with only the stuff on his or her back.
    Merchant, Wealthy and Royal NPCs have a starting view of Unfriendly. Working Class, Working Poor, and Poor NPCs have a starting view of Neutral.
Merchant - 180 silver/month.
  • Lives in towns & cities, or is an elder, council member, etc of a village or tribe. Owns property.
    As retainer, is a guard captain, expert chef, caravan master, half-adept, or even 2nd circle adept.
    45 silver/month budget for retainers.
    The character is considered connected to a business or other income-generating organization. It maintains itself so that the character can adventure, but can be a source of contacts, favors and adventure hooks.
    When the character buys into Merchant, choose a common magical item and add it to his inventory.
    Travels with a beast of burden and tent.
    Poor & Working Poor have a starting view of Friendly. Working Class, Merchant, and Wealthy are Neutral. Royalty is Unfriendly.
Wealthy - 1,500 silver/month.
  • Lives in towns & cities, or is a chief or council member of a major tribe. Owns property.
    Includes 180 silver/month budget for retainers.
    The character is considered connected to a business or other income-generating organization. It maintains itself so that the character can adventure, but can be a source of contacts, favors and adventure hooks. If the budget for retainers is spent on an NPC that runs the business, the retainer can make a skill check DN (6) each month to generate income for the PC. For each success, the PC gains 100 silver. On a rule of 1, the retainer has lost 1d10 x 100 silver that the PC must cover in addition to the normal monthly cost. If the PC is focused on the organization, he or she can make a skill check to earn 500 silver per success. On a rule of 1, the PC has lost 1d10 x 500 silver.
    When the character buys into Wealthy, choose 1d4 common magical items and add it to his inventory.
    Travels with a wagon & pavilion. Must spend 180 silver on extra retainers (drivers, cooks, guards), or be treated as a mere Merchant while traveling.
    Poor, Working Poor, Working Class, Merchant, and Wealthy have a starting view of Friendly, and Royalty have a starting view of Neutral.
Royalty - 5,000 silver/month.
  • Lives in cities. Owns property.
    Includes 360 silver/month budget for retainers.
    The character is considered connected to a business or other income-generating organization. It maintains itself so that the character can adventure, but can be a source of contacts, favors and adventure hooks. If the budget for retainers is spent on NPCs that runs the business, the retainers can each make a skill check DN (6) each month to generate income for the PC. For each success, the PC earns 500 silver. On a rule of 1, the retainer has lost 1d20 x 100 silver that the PC must cover in addition to the normal monthly cost. If the PC is focused on the organization, he or she can make a skill check to earn 1000 silver per success. On a rule of 1, the PC has lost 1d10 x 1000 silver.
    When the character buys into Wealthy, choose 2d4 common magical items and add it to his inventory.
    Royalty travels with a wagon train and pavilion tent. The PC must spend an additional 360 silver on additional retainers (drivers, cooks, guards), or be treated as merely Wealthy.
    Poor & Working Poor have a Loyal Attitude towards Royalty. All others treat them as Friendly.

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Mataxes
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Re: Lifestyles of the rich and the others

Post by Mataxes » Mon May 01, 2017 11:50 pm

As I've gotten older, I've become more of a fan of abstract wealth mechanics. I don't think it plays well into the typical "loot forgotten kaers and tombs" aesthetic that goes along with traditional tabletop fantasy gaming, but I like it.

How did you determine the base monthly cost? My gut reaction is that (the lower end at least) are on the high side.
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Slimcreeper
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Re: Lifestyles of the rich and the others

Post by Slimcreeper » Tue May 02, 2017 12:02 pm

Yeah, I think it is crazy to think that these heroes have an exact accounting of literally all of their stuff. It makes them less real.

I fuzzed it from the cost of hotel rooms & meals. Poor - 1 cp flophouse + 3 cp simple meal = 4cp, rounded up to 5 cp, x 30 days = 15 silver. Working Poor - Cheap Inn 5 copper + Average Meal 1 silver = 45 silver/month. I figure most people have a more affordable situation than a hotel room (although in the real world lots of homeless people are trapped into hotel rooms because they can't afford a deposit), but I figured that gave enough leeway to cover taxes, clothing, medical care, entertainment, donations to questors and so on. You absolutely could survive - as in not die - on less, but I don't think it's applicable to adventurers. That said, people at the bottom end probably used more barter and DIY to produce their own goods, and less hard silver. The system suffers a bit of disconnect between being for adventurers and being a model of the society.

I tried to make the income generating organizations (whether an alchemist/herbalist shop like you see in kung fu movies, a barony, or a trading company, or whatever) pretty close to neutral, with a real risk of losing money. That way it isn't unrealistic that a hero should retire, but not actually tempting for a player. Or you could just say that the character spends a year or two running the barony between epic adventures, or whatever.

Hopefully, the tiers will give ambitious PCs something to strive for, and the steady expense will keep the adventurer looking for work.

Slimcreeper
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Re: Lifestyles of the rich and the others

Post by Slimcreeper » Tue May 02, 2017 1:08 pm

Actually, the poorer folks get a pretty good deal since it includes basic travel expenses.

Oh, and it may not be clear - the further up the food chain you are, the larger your personal household is. Royalty could have up to 24 ladies-in-waiting or manservants or simple guards; or more likely a vizier with a hardworking but under appreciated secretary and a guard captain in charge of 3 simple guards. That doesn't include the income-generating organization (needs a better name!), but those are the ones assigned to you directly.

They aren't really intended to aid in adventures and especially not in combat, since simple guards would just get obliterated in anything real. It should let the players develop some of the NPCs, though.

Of course, you can always hire extra mercenaries or buy an exquisite piece of artwork that wouldn't normally be appropriate for your lifestyle, you just have to do it with your extra money.

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Lifestyles of the rich and the others

Post by ChrisDDickey » Thu May 04, 2017 9:02 am

I did something similar at the start of my campaign.
This is what I came up with.
Cash
Character does not use lifestyle rules and pays cash for everything.
Destitute
A destitute character must track every purchase, and may need to resort to Survival checks or theft to feed himself. All your gear and equipment needs to be replaced after 6 months due to mold, mildew, rust, and lack of basic maintenance.
Squalid 5sp per month.
Minimum needed to avoid survival checks. You suffer interaction penalties in social situations. All your gear and equipment needs to be replaced after 6 months due to mold, mildew, rust, and lack of basic maintenance.
Poor 25sp per month.
You sleep on the floor of a flophouse. You buy your clothes secondhand. Meat is a luxury. You drink water that you fetch yourself. All your gear and equipment is maintained in poor condition and a random piece must be lost/replaced monthly.
Lower-Class 50sp per month.
Your bed is a straw tick or a frame with a rope net, but your room has no lock. You eat sausage or fried meat with ale every three days, and you can afford warm clothes. You get a full bath monthly and wash every week. Some of your gea and equipment is in poor condition and a random piece must be replaced quarterly.
Middle-Class 75sp per Month.
You have a room with a bed, and you can bar the door when you're there. You eat meat every day and drink ale or wine instead of water. Your clothes may be plain, but you bought them new, and you get a bath every week. Your basic and standard gear and mount are kept in good condition.
Wealthy 250sp per month.
You eat vegetables and either lean meat or fine fish every day. You drink good wine and ale. You probably have at least one servant
Very Wealthy 650sp per month.
Your home is large and has magic locks on the doors, and you have at least several servants. You own a fine mount and/or a coach. You wear quite a bit of distinctive and enchanted clothing, some of which is very luxurious, and about four times a month, you indulge in a sumptuous, nine-course feast.
Filthy Rich 1500sp per month or more.
Your home is very large and abounds with magical amenities--heat stones, light crystals, massaging baths, as well as a staff and a stable. Unless otherwise noted, your clothing is distinctive and enchanted, and often luxurious. You enjoy sumptuous feasts every three days or so.
Adept - 50 sp/circle/month
This is the lifestyle of a 'typical' adept of your circle. You never run out of basic supplies and all your gear and (reasonable) animals are kept in very good condition. Your living conditions improve to the level that you are spending. IE: at 5rd circle, you are maintaining a lifestyle that is wealthy.
Differences include that clothing and tents etc are not included in lifestyle, they need to be purchased, but maintenance of clothing and equipment is included in lifestyle. Maintenance for a basic mount is included in middle-class, but the guy who bought a griffin had his lifestyle adjusted by 450 SP per month. Adventurers don't have to pay to upgrade their lifestyle, they just start staying at a better class of inn.

It simplifies things. As middle class, players only have to worry about equipment costs and extraordinary expenses such as airship travel.

For the most part, While some started at lower-class for circles one and two, everybody upgraded to middle class before going to third circle. One guy required a nudge. He started at squalid, but when the wealthy and grateful merchant bought a feast in the best restaurant in Travar for the entire party except him, and other taverns started to refuse him entry unless he bathed and visited a laundry, he finally upgraded to lower-class as well.

I tried to interest players in a circle based "Adept" lifestyle, where Adventurers automatically start to pay more as they become more powerful and more respectable. None of the players were interested. Maybe I made it too steep at 75 SP/circle, maybe 50 SP per circle is more realistic. So a 5th circle Adept automatically adopts a Wealthy lifestyle.
I like your budget for retainers. And I think I ought to rethink my higher levels. You are correct that 1500 SP per month is not filthy rich.

Slimcreeper
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Re: Lifestyles of the rich and the others

Post by Slimcreeper » Thu May 04, 2017 11:45 am

I'm glad to see that our numbers aren't widely divergent, even with your setup being much more granular. I didn't really think about ownership of mounts or pack animals, per se. I was thinking more of renting them, or buying and then selling them back when you arrive.

It might also be a good idea to work in the Haggle talent/skill for merchant and poorer.

I think I'm going to borrow some of your verbiage and work it into my system.

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Lifestyles of the rich and the others

Post by ChrisDDickey » Sun May 07, 2017 11:52 am

The lifestyle rules as I envision them don't actually provide a purchased mount or coach. They simply provide an appropriate budget for feeding and stabling one if you bought it. Or reasonable rental budget if you did not. So yes, I think what we are thinking about mounts works out about the same.

But once again, a Griffin might be absorbed into a filthy rich lifestyle, but any lessor one would require a monthly adjustment to accommodate all the meat it eats. Owning a Griffin is simply not a middle-class expense.
The trick is for the GM to be able to quickly determine if certain activities are covered by lifestyle. Unless you are rich, throwing a feast requires an additional cash payment. Traveling on an airship requires an additional cash payment. Walking or riding does not require additional cash payment, but if you spend a month traveling, you spend a month of lifestyle costs.

Lifestyle budgets are fairly flexible, and a player can specify where his discretionary funds go. Some might drink more. Some might gamble more. Somebody who wants to drink and gamble every night might adjust his lifestyle expenses just to give him a bigger vices budget. IE: OK, I have a middle class lifestyle, but I routinely party so much I spend an extra 25 SP per month. People quickly learn to expect to find me at the most rowdy tavern every night

I don't really see haggling having much impact on how much is actually spent. Probably more in the way of get slightly better value for the funds you do expend, but you still expend the same amount.

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