Noob question, for a new Nethermancer

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Nicsterdk
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Noob question, for a new Nethermancer

Post by Nicsterdk » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:44 pm

When creating my Nethermancer I see that an important stat is Cha.. Now I assumed to begin with, that this was due to possible negotiations with spirits, and other nasties. But I have yet to find a class important talent, skill, or spell that requires Charisma, or benefit from it.

What am I missing, where does Cha come into play for a Nethermancer?

Thank you kindly, in advance :)

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The Undying
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Re: Noob question, for a new Nethermancer

Post by The Undying » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:52 pm

Take a look at your Talents, both Option and Discipline. I think that's the underlying justification.

Lys
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Re: Noob question, for a new Nethermancer

Post by Lys » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:07 am

You're not missing anything. The game is unfortunately wrong, and Charisma is not actually important to Nethermancers. You summon spirits with Summoning, and negotiate them with Spirt Talk, both of which are Perception based. The only Talent i see that benefits from Charisma is Steely Stare, and even if you're planning on taking it, it's not worth it to invest in Charisma just for that. You should build your Nethermancer like any other spellcaster with a focus first on Perception, and second on Willpower. Ideally you want both at 16, though if you're playing an Elf or a Dwarf it's viable to get Perception 19 and Willpower 16.

Telarus
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Re: Noob question, for a new Nethermancer

Post by Telarus » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:51 am

Steeley Stare and Arcane Mutterings are the only talents (so far) that are Charisma based. But, without the Summon talent, you are stuck with basic Interaction Tests (i.e. Intimidation, or trading Favors) when dealing with spirits you randomly come across. The summon talent is great in that it "guarantees" a service (if you convince the spirit to use the powers you want), but spirits are essentially "non-player characters" and you can definitely cut deals and make contracts with them (JUST BE CAREFUL). Imagine you found an actual haunted graveyard, but are not yet 5th circle. At that point you would roll Spirit Talk to enable communication with a nearby spirit, but after that it's Interaction tests (CHA). I would get at least a Step 5 Charisma.

Lys
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Re: Noob question, for a new Nethermancer

Post by Lys » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:16 am

You use Spirit Talk to interact with spirits you randomly come across too. As per the Nethermancer Half-Magic description: "A Nethermancer may
use half-magic to sense the presence of spirits within 30 yards of his location. The Detection Difficulty for sensing a spirit is the spirit’s Mystic Defense (determined by gamemaster). If the test succeeds, the Nethermancer can sense the presence of the spirit and use spells, or talents such as Spirit Hold or Spirit Talk, to communicate and interact with the spirit."

Also, i would recommend every character have a minium of Step 5 everything. Which is to say make sure every stat is at least a 10.

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The Undying
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Re: Noob question, for a new Nethermancer

Post by The Undying » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:54 am

Tel's point is valid: Spirit Talk, like Speak Language (magic or mundane), is a medium of speech, not a nuance. If all folks needed to do was communicate, then all the social skills (Intimidate, Seduce, etc) would be unnecessary. But no, the point is you need a medium of speech - a shared language - over which to perform nuanced interaction (Intimidate, Seduce, etc). If you both speak Orc, then you can exchange information in Orcish; if you want to browbeat them, you still have to roll Intimidation. The magical speaking Talents (Spirit Talk, Elemental Tongues, Speak Language) just provide that medium without actually knowing the language - the magic provides interpretation.

NOW, that being said, here's the reason that Nethermancers would need Charisma whereas Elementalists would not. Elemental spirits are completely alien things and social skills flat out don't work on them. Unfortunately, I cannot for the life of me remember which source book that is from, but it is a published thing. You can't seduce them, you can't intimidate them, you can only reason with them. So, interaction tests aren't a thing with them. Meanwhile, many Ally spirits are those of passed on Namegivers, and Namegiver spirits DO completely follow the laws of Interaction tests. So, you CAN just reason things out with a Namegiver spirit, but you CAN also Intimidate, Seduce, Deceive, etc. That's where Charisma really comes in.

Nicsterdk
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Re: Noob question, for a new Nethermancer

Post by Nicsterdk » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:41 am

Thank you guys, this helped a lot.

Normally when you see "These stats are important for this class" in any handbook, it relates to what is important for survival, skills, disciplines or abilities for that class. As I could find very few cha based skills, talents or otherwise relevant to the "base line" of the Nethermancer, it got me wondering. I figured that it would be something about communicating or negotiating with spirits, but this to wasn't obvious from the rules.

This is my first character, in a very new game. So to begin with I just poured points into "important" stats, and now have a cha of 16. As i rumaged through the rules, and found very little validation for it being so high. I have kinda tempted to dump it to 13, supplying me with points for actual survival.

You guys made some very valid points, and it helped me greatly to gain wisdom from veteran players. I think that, besides being helpful for communicating with spirits, I will keep a high cha, to help me against prosecution from angry villagers. Plus it will make my group need me even more, if I can negotiate my way around living and undead encounters alike ^^.

Thank you!

Slimcreeper
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Re: Noob question, for a new Nethermancer

Post by Slimcreeper » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:17 pm

I think a high charisma doesn't necessarily mean that you are super hot and lovable either. You can have an intense and compelling personality, someone that people respect and listen to, even if they don't invite you to their birthday parties.

Nicsterdk
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Re: Noob question, for a new Nethermancer

Post by Nicsterdk » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:11 pm

Ooh I completely agree with that Slimcreeper :)

Dougansf
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Re: Noob question, for a new Nethermancer

Post by Dougansf » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:20 pm

Adding onto the pile of reasons, high Charisma also means higher Social Defense. Talents like Battle Shout or Fearsome Charge target it.

It just wouldn't do to be intimidated by just anyone. ;)

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