4th edition obsidian and blood magic

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ChrisDDickey
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Re: 4th edition obsidian and blood magic

Post by ChrisDDickey » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:29 pm

Lursi wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:10 am
Hm.. so you say if one (member of a group) gets horror marked that horror has a path to all (members)?
Such is my understanding. (which may not be correct)
And of course clearly not all horrors have the sophisticated powers to use such a link. But the subtle and sophisticated horrors have always been a bigger cause of concern than the mindless brutes.

But my understanding of the objection that Obsidiman have to Blood Oaths is that they are a perceived risk to the Obsidimans liferocks and everybody linked to it (many of whom are not adepts, and thus have lessor defenses than adepts). I don't know if the risk is perceived as one way or both ways.
Lursi wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:10 am
In my opinion, the opposite should be the case. Once you are part of a strong group, it should be harder to twist your soul.
Pattern Items are a well-known risk to everybody. If a sufficiently powerful horror obtains the personal pattern item you used to join a group pattern, or gets it's hooks into the group pattern item, you are certainly screwed. If a sufficiently sophisticated horror gets it's hooks into your your group pattern, you, and everybody in the group might be screwed. Don't join a group in which pattern item security is not taken very, very seriously by each and every member.

Being a member of a strong group means that you have strong allies to call upon for your defense, and the group pattern makes you and your allies stronger. But like an aqueduct into a citadel, the pattern thread itself is a weakness through which strength flows.
Last edited by ChrisDDickey on Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

Bonhumm
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Re: 4th edition obsidian and blood magic

Post by Bonhumm » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:32 pm

Lursi wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:10 am
That would mean that group patterns for large groups are just another word for suicide.
I'd see that as a bit like computer networking:

- Having a computer completely disconnected from any network is completely safe.... and not that useful.
- Being connected to the internet through a small lan makes your more versatile and the people using it can pool their resources/money to make it safe(r).
- Being connected to a large lan (company etc) should make it even safer (I know, I know, big≠well run).

But yes, just BEING connected to a network is a potential security breach; the question is are you willing to risk it or not considering the advantages?

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Mataxes
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Re: 4th edition obsidian and blood magic

Post by Mataxes » Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:34 pm

ChrisDDickey wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:29 pm
If a sufficiently sophisticated horror gets it's hooks into your your group pattern, you, and everybody in the group might be screwed.
This is basically the backstory premise behind the adventure collection Blades.
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Sharkforce
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Re: 4th edition obsidian and blood magic

Post by Sharkforce » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:48 am

on the flip side, you also might be doomed if a sufficiently powerful horror gets its hooks into your recently-met acquaintances that you just started travelling with as well (or that you haven't even started travelling with at all), so... what else is new?

ChrisDDickey
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Re: 4th edition obsidian and blood magic

Post by ChrisDDickey » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:32 am

Anybody and everybody is vulnerable on the road, yes. Yet once again, there is a difference between you being doomed if you meet a horror in the wilderness, and you doing something that other members of your community refuse to do because they know that it is a danger to their entire community. One is a personal risk you choose to take. The other is risking your entire community for something that benefits you, but not your community. Huge difference.

Also, for a horror, operating in communities is dangerous, even for powerful and subtle horrors. You never can tell when a group of powerful adventurers are going to show up and ruin your carefully laid plans.
But if a powerful and subtle horror can get some fool to open a magically vulnerable link to an entire life-rock, or exert its influence through an existing link... Much, much safer. An entire community to eat, and the horror does not have to be physically touching the rock, nor go to the trouble to infect/corrupt the population one by one. Inject its corruption directly into the liferock though your corrupted thread, and start feasting.

Again, yes horrors can and do infect whole communities of non-obsidimen. But the lore seems to say that Obsidimen have reason to think that an Obsidiman making a Blood Oath is a particular and specific risk to his liferock. Since there are horrors looking for feasts, you don't want to be the easiest of prey. You want to be more troublesome than the feast is worth so that it will go elsewhere looking for the easy meal.


*****************
I am going to respond to the obvious criticism before it is asked. I don't have anything to support the following, I am just taking as stated that Obsidimen are more wary than usual about blood oaths, and make up one possible explanation for why.

Criticism: But if horrors can infect a liferock through an individual members link to it, can't it just grab any Obsidiman and infect the whole liferock. Why would blood oaths make a liferock more vulnerable?

Obsidimen are connected to their liferock. The lore states that if a liferock is damaged, destroyed, or corrupted, the Obsidimen from that liferock also suffer similarly. However that aspect of the relationship seems to be one-way. Corruption to a liferock corrupts its members. Corruption to members does not normally corrupt liferocks.
However blood oaths form a newer, bigger, wider connection between the Obsidiman and some other pattern. This 2nd pathway is a two-way path, and strength flows both to the member, and from the member to all other members. It is not inconceivable that this new pathway in some manner affects the connection an Obsidiman has to his own liferock, and allows corruption to be injected through himself to his liferock.

Again, I have no support for the above, I merely present it as one of the possible explanations for why Obsidimen are wary about blood oaths. I don't say "I don't understand why this should be so, so therefore it is not so". Instead I say "what is a possible explanation for what has been stated as being so, being so". There are many other potential explanations if one cares to imagine them.
Last edited by ChrisDDickey on Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lursi
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Re: 4th edition obsidian and blood magic

Post by Lursi » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:54 am

So I conclude that the network effect is there and people are vulnerable via a link that makes them more powerful.

I further still see that a group sticking together is adding a bonus to the individual’s sanity.

Combined it means that a group is more attractive as target but more difficult to penetrate.

That makes sense.

It also prevents greenhorns to form such patterns too early and puts a risk against the (otherwise very cheap) benefits.


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Of all things I lost, sanity I held dearest.

Belenus
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Re: 4th edition obsidian and blood magic

Post by Belenus » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:20 am

And here I thought they are just wary of blood oaths, because you are deeply "indepted" to another person.
And if something happens to your life rock while at the same time you have to fulfill your blood oath, the obsidian has to make a sacrifice.
They's why I stated, that if the trust is big enough between those making a blood oath, the obsidian will never come in a situation as described above, because the group will come to his help instead of staying in his way.

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etherial
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Re: 4th edition obsidian and blood magic

Post by etherial » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:00 am

Perhaps then, the solution is to go to the Liferock and seek the blessings of the Siblinghood.

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