Called Shot to ignore armor?

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Ferretmonger
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:02 pm

Called Shot to ignore armor?

Post by Ferretmonger » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:27 pm

Called Shot (Players Guide p. 384)
A character makes a precise attack against a target, at-tempting to strike a specific body part, hitting a weapon, striking a designated object, and so on. The player declares what object or part of his opponent his character is attempting to hit with the called shot. The character suffers a –3 penalty to his close or ranged combat Attack test. At the gamemaster’s discretion, more difficult shots may incur a higher penalty. The concentration required causes the character 1 Strain per Attack test. If the test succeeds, the character strikes the chosen object or the intended area on his opponent.
A Called Shot cannot be used to increase the damage of an attack (see p. 378)
It's not specified anywhere if armor can be bypassed by this or not, but I think that the "the character strikes the chosen object or the intended area on his opponent" makes a good case for that. Would/do you allow characters/players to make Called Shots against an unarmored area e.g. someone's head if not wearing a helmet and have them deal damage to the target and ignore armor (worn, not natural or provided by spells)? Harder Called Shots can call for a higher penalty as well so balancing can be done that way. Not sure though how to read the part about "A Called Shot cannot be used to increase the damage of an attack (see p. 378)"?

Bonhumm
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Location: Right behind you

Re: Called Shot to ignore armor?

Post by Bonhumm » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:52 pm

In previous editions, Called Shot could not be used to make Armor-Defeating Hits, which is something that always bothered me in the past.

The whole Armor-Defeating Hits / Success Table mechanic has been (thankfully) replaced by the Additional Success mechanic in 4th edition so the point is moot as (on normal attacks) armor always reduce the damage of the attack no matter how successful (except for a few exceptions).

As you said, the combat option rule does not say anything about armor so I'd say there is a 2 possibilities:

1- Based on past edition rules: no
2- Based on the fact that they actively removed the mention about the armor: yes or up to GM. Personally as a GM I'd allow it but would adjust the difficulty based on the armor; after all, a leather armor cover barely about half the body mass so targeting an (unprotected) leg would be less of a challenge that trying to target the joins on a full plate armor.

Ferretmonger
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:02 pm

Re: Called Shot to ignore armor?

Post by Ferretmonger » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:41 pm

I probably wouldn't allow bypassing armor for full cover armor parts e.g. plate, or at least have a fairly high penalty for hitting such a small exposed area. That's sort of what Spot Armor Flaw is for (although it doesn't actually need armor to work). But I definately like having the combat option to make Called Shots for cases like this, as long as it's not always the best option.

Panda
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Called Shot to ignore armor?

Post by Panda » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:00 pm

No, called shots can never be used to increase damage, bypass armor, etc., unless specifically noted. There are no rules for helmets because it's ultimately an unnecessary detail, not a gotcha for people who don't realize it's vital. Otherwise, everyone always does a called shot to bypass armor and we're back to the fishing for armor defeating hits paradigm. The idea is everyone is automatically looking to attack their opponent where most vulnerable, thus extra successes adding to damage.

Lursi
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Location: Münster

Re: Called Shot to ignore armor?

Post by Lursi » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:41 pm

I would suggest to use a called shot for functional purposes.

Cutting the rope they use to hang your friend for example.
Of all things I lost, sanity I held dearest.

Aegharan
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Re: Called Shot to ignore armor?

Post by Aegharan » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:48 pm

Ferretmonger wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:27 pm
Called Shot (Players Guide p. 384)
[...]
A Called Shot cannot be used to increase the damage of an attack (see p. 378)
Bypassing armor would exactly be increasing the damage...

Sharkforce
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:39 am

Re: Called Shot to ignore armor?

Post by Sharkforce » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:21 pm

Panda wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:00 pm
No, called shots can never be used to increase damage, bypass armor, etc., unless specifically noted. There are no rules for helmets because it's ultimately an unnecessary detail, not a gotcha for people who don't realize it's vital. Otherwise, everyone always does a called shot to bypass armor and we're back to the fishing for armor defeating hits paradigm. The idea is everyone is automatically looking to attack their opponent where most vulnerable, thus extra successes adding to damage.
makes sense. it would be pretty silly to start from the baseline assumption that someone has noticed you're covered in steel on your torso and concluding that obviously the best solution is to attempt to stab you to death through that armour while never trying to attack elsewhere =S

JeretJax
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Called Shot question

Post by JeretJax » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:09 pm

I have a follow- up question to called shot, can I use (as an Archer) True shot to negate the attack penalty from called shot? So 2 strain no penalty or 1 strain with a -3 penalty. Also would I be able to use Mystic Aim and with a success cut that attack penalty to 1 for 1 strain? OR does the strain cost add up - Called shot 1 strain+ True shot +2 strain = 3 strain?

Bonhumm
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Location: Right behind you

Re: Called Shot question

Post by Bonhumm » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:35 pm

JeretJax wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:09 pm
I have a follow- up question to called shot, can I use (as an Archer) True shot to negate the attack penalty from called shot? So 2 strain no penalty or 1 strain with a -3 penalty. Also would I be able to use Mystic Aim and with a success cut that attack penalty to 1 for 1 strain? OR does the strain cost add up - Called shot 1 strain+ True shot +2 strain = 3 strain?
True Shot kinda insure that you are going to hit the target (as long as you have enough Karma and that the target fail his Avoid Blow test) so I guess you could say that it 'negates' the penalty of Called Shot but its at the cost of 2 Strains and an unknown number of Karma points.

Mystic Aim would also work, but if you only roll 1 success you would still end up with a -1 penalty.

In either cases, the Strains would add up.

Ferretmonger
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:02 pm

Re: Called Shot to ignore armor?

Post by Ferretmonger » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:49 pm

A called shot that bypasses armor wouldn't exactly increase the damage, it would only "increase" the damage inflicted. That's not the same. And it never specifically say that it can't be used to bypass armor either. It just says that it can never be used to increase damage. The way I'm reading that is that you can't use Down Strike etc on a Called Shot. I'm sure there's a "this is the way it's meant to be read" explanation, but just by reading the text on it's own it could go both ways, imo.

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