AbUsing Summon Ally Spirit.

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Lamoron
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:22 am

AbUsing Summon Ally Spirit.

Post by Lamoron » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Having recently hit 5th Circle Nethermancer I've run into all kinds of issues. I have a great DM, and he let's us do all sorts of nifty things, if they're good for the story, but I like having the actual rules in place before I ask him to bend them.

I've been using the Summon Ally Spirit quite a bit since I got it, even though it's useless in combat, dangerous, and generally stupidly difficult to use because of the 30 minute summoning ritual. During the grind to figure out how to get some use out of it, I've come to the realization that Summon Ally Spirit is basically "Whatever talent you want" on a stick, which has led me to some interesting ideas, but I would like some input on the legality.

1. The Forge Weapon/Forge Armor requires eight hours of work for seven consecutive days, but importantly not consecutive hours. Could I theoretically summon the same spirit with the Manifest & Talent powers, enough times each day to fulfill the requirements, and thus have access to high rank Forged Weapons/Armor without a Smith in the group?

2. Can I summon a Spirit with the Blood Share talent, and have it use that ability on me, despite not having... well... blood?

Forget about the morality, I just want to know if the rules work like I think they do :)

Bonhumm
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:43 pm
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Re: AbUsing Summon Ally Spirit.

Post by Bonhumm » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:24 pm

1- I'd say theoretically yes but... I REALLY don't see how would a Spirit have a talent like Forge Armor or Forge Weapon; why/how would have they learned it in their astral (i.e. armor/weapon-less) plane?

2- Beside the whole 'how do you cut a spirit' question, there is the 'Loyal character/creature' requirement; summoned spirit have to follow the summoner's order but that's not out of loyalty. It would be, in my opinion, similar to trying to use that talent on a slave. Obedient ≠ loyal.

Telarus
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:16 am

Re: AbUsing Summon Ally Spirit.

Post by Telarus » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:38 am

2 - Agreed. But, hey, that's an RP goal worth working towards.

1 - "Ally spirits" includes the ghosts of dead namegivers...

Lamoron
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:22 am

Re: AbUsing Summon Ally Spirit.

Post by Lamoron » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:22 am

2. The target has to be loyal, so it would technically be a question about my characters loyalty to the spirit. My character is about as white Nethermancer as they come, and her ultimate goal is to secure an alliance between spirits and Namegivers (DM said to set some lofty meta goals), so forcing some spirit to bleed for me is never going to happen, but I would pretty much guaranteed count as a loyal target.

Bonhumm
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:43 pm
Location: Right behind you

Re: AbUsing Summon Ally Spirit.

Post by Bonhumm » Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:18 am

Lamoron wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:22 am
2. The target has to be loyal, so it would technically be a question about my characters loyalty to the spirit.
I disagree, the description of the talent states:

'The adept transfers damage between himself and a Loyal character or creature.'

thus its a question of how the other character/creature is loyal toward you, not the other way around.

Otherwise, this talent could be used offensively.

Lamoron
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:22 am

Re: AbUsing Summon Ally Spirit.

Post by Lamoron » Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:30 am

Bonhumm wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:18 am
Lamoron wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:22 am
2. The target has to be loyal, so it would technically be a question about my characters loyalty to the spirit.
I disagree, the description of the talent states:

'The adept transfers damage between himself and a Loyal character or creature.'

thus its a question of how the other character/creature is loyal toward you, not the other way around.

Otherwise, this talent could be used offensively.
It is the Spirit using the Talent on my character, not the other way around. The Spirit has Blood Share, and thus the target is me, and the target must be loyal.

Panda
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:30 am

Re: AbUsing Summon Ally Spirit.

Post by Panda » Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:18 am

Greetings,

1) No, the spirit can start, but their service ends before the task is complete, thus ending the attempt at using the talent. It would be much like Sisyphus for all involved.

2) It's theoretically possible, however unlikely at best as a summoned spirit is not interested in bleeding or dying for you, which means a Contest of Wills and if you're using a Contest of Wills or some coersion, no one is likely Loyal. If you build a relationship where both parties are Loyal, it is possible for a spirit to use Blood Share. For what Loyal means in this context, see GMG, p. 142.

Lamoron
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:22 am

Re: AbUsing Summon Ally Spirit.

Post by Lamoron » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:08 pm

Thanks Panda, as always 😊

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