Stacking Talents and Bonusses

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Aegharan
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:58 pm

Stacking Talents and Bonusses

Post by Aegharan » Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:12 pm

Hello everybody,

I was reading up on different classes and stumbled over the part of the Errata that one can use "1 Karma per source per test", with each talent being a source, but "discipline" being one source in the vein of "highest bonus counts" at Defence. The provided example is Warrior and Weaponsmith with their 5th Circle Karma ability not stacking.
So it's correct, that Beastmaster 5 (claw shape damage test) also doesn't stack with weaponsmith 5 (damage test with self made weapon), because they all allow Karma for a damage test, even if it's for different reasons?

Next thing regarding stacking Talents:
Panda wrote here:
For Swordmaster and Warrior, Acrobatic Strike and Anticipate Blow are technically both options, but it's hard to imagine many characters truly investing in both given they're not compatible (similar to taking both Air Dance and Cobra Strike, unless you don't have a choice).
Why don't Cobra Strike and Air Dance stack?


/edit: I just read the Thief Karma ability again and it is for attack tests, not damage tests, so I edited that part.

Aegharan
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:58 pm

Re: Stacking Talents and Bonusses

Post by Aegharan » Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:22 pm

And an unrelated question that doesn't warrant its own topic: Am I correct that the Thief 5 ability (karma on attack test) also counts for spells, as for all of melee attack, ranged attack and spells an 'attack test' is rolled?

sigfriedmcwild
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:59 am

Re: Stacking Talents and Bonusses

Post by sigfriedmcwild » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:15 pm

Regarding Cobra Strike and Air Dance, they don’t stack because they both replace the initiative test.

Note this unlike the damage boosting talents which do stack as far as I understand.

(I asked this question on the Discord a while ago)

Bonhumm
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Re: Stacking Talents and Bonusses

Post by Bonhumm » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:47 pm

Aegharan wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:22 pm
And an unrelated question that doesn't warrant its own topic: Am I correct that the Thief 5 ability (karma on attack test) also counts for spells, as for all of melee attack, ranged attack and spells an 'attack test' is rolled?
Yes, the Player's Guide at page 377 states:

1. Make An Attack Test
'Whenever a character attempts to attack a target, whether with a weapon or a spell, he makes a test using the appropriate talent or skill. This type of test is usually referred to as an Attack test.'


Thus I would assume (damage dealing) spells count as an 'attack test'.

Although applying this Thief bonus to spellscasting acquired (I assume) through either a second discipline or Versatility would, in my opinion, go counter to the 'spirit of the rule'. As a GM I would need to give it some thought before deciding if I'd allow it or not.

Aegharan
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:58 pm

Re: Stacking Talents and Bonusses

Post by Aegharan » Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:48 pm

sigfriedmcwild wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:15 pm
Regarding Cobra Strike and Air Dance, they don’t stack because they both replace the initiative test.

Note this unlike the damage boosting talents which do stack as far as I understand.

(I asked this question on the Discord a while ago)
Air Dance: "The Adept substitutes the Air Dance Step for the Dexterity Step when making his Initiative Test".

Cobra Strike indeed replaces Initiative by Cobra Strike + Dexterity.

The different language made me believe it was intended to stack, unlike Anticipate Blow and Acrobatic Defense, where it's explicitly mentioned that it's mutually exclusive.

Bonhumm wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:47 pm
Thus I would assume (damage dealing) spells count as an 'attack test'.

Although applying this Thief bonus to spellscasting acquired (I assume) through either a second discipline or Versatility would, in my opinion, go counter to the 'spirit of the rule'. As a GM I would need to give it some thought before deciding if I'd allow it or not.
The intent of that Karma ability is of course making attacks from blindside/surprise that much more punishing/rewarding.
I have an Illusionist/Thief in the westmarches game on this forum. And I have actually used it before, although I am not 100% sure if it came across as me using that combo, or if we discussed it beforehand. I just posted it here because I just stumbled upon it while reading about the Karma abilities again.

sigfriedmcwild
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:59 am

Re: Stacking Talents and Bonusses

Post by sigfriedmcwild » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:26 pm

Mataxes mentioned on the Discord that the different wording is accidental and the Air Dance and Cobra Strike are not meant to stack (I know, I wanted them to stack too :()

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