High Circle Preview: Elementalist

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The Undying
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Re: High Circle Preview: Elementalist

Post by The Undying » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:01 am

As above, looks like my concerns about Spliced Weave have been thoroughly resolved. However, I still have a lot of heartache over Plant Talk:
  • It's a ED3 Circle 1 spell that is now a Warden Talent; that's a huge increase in cost, and I don't think the effect really justifies it
  • Elementalists already have access to this effect via Summoning, just at a slower speed; forcing this as a Discipline Talent has the result of both double-charging the Discipline for an effect while also diminishing their previous investment
  • Elementalists are not investigators/navigators as a primary feature, only as a secondary (i.e., Option) feature; this effect really belongs as an Option just like the other investigation (Astral Sight, Evidence Analysis, Item History) and orienteering (Navigation, Safe Path, Tracking, Wilderness Survival) Talents
In my opinion
  • This effect is best served as a Knack of Elemental Tongues
  • If it must remain a Talent, swapping it for Perfect Focus as the better Discipline Talent makes far more sense
    • Supports existing abilities, like Summoning, which are core features of the Discipline
    • Supports the Karma ability found at the same Circle
    • The upper-tiers of Elementalist already have plenty of Elemental-themed Discipline Talents (Elemental Mastery, Vine Armor, Elemental Walk, Stone Skin - that's 4 out of 7), shoehorning Plant Talk in to further support the Elemental theme isn't necessary
Now, all that being said, I have no idea what the actual text of Plant Talk is. The whole issue with trying to reverse engineer Spliced Weave based on only the information provided in the preview is a good example where a lot of heart ache could've been avoided with the straight Talent text. Right now, I'm going off the assumption that this Talent just provides the effects of the old spell - find out about on-goings anywhere within the area covered by the plant's roots - with some kind of weird Rank-based overlay (number of questions that can be asked, maybe). If this is the Talent effect, here are the reasons it is just badly designed for Elementalists:
  • Elementalists can already sense nearby Elemental spirits as half-magic, which should work nearly without fail against the extremely low strength of these plant spirits, which feeds into the next point
  • Elementalists can already talk to nearby Elemental spirits via Elemental tongues
  • Although it takes significantly longer, Elementalists have access to MUCH better information-gathering abilities via Summon, with benefits including a much larger area and different perspectives (different Elemental spirits notice different things)
  • Summon guarantees a service, which can be used to provide information, so a special purpose Talent guaranteed to provide information isn't necessary
  • Value of Standard Action speed for this information gathering versus Summon ritual Sustained Action speed is highly debatable and best left as a choice (i.e., Option) for the Elementalist
Maybe the value here is in an exceptionally narrow interpretation of the Summon'ed ability for providing information. To me, a Summon'ed spirit should be able to answer multiple questions over the course of the Summon time when their service is to provide information. You can't subsequently send them to go out and find something, as that's a different service and a different ability (or, more specifically, you'd have to negotiate with them for an additional service), BUT you should be able to ask multiple questions (how many people passed, were they all on foot, were any walking oddly like with a limp, were they dragging anything, etc, etc, etc). If you only allow the Summoner to ask a single question, then first, I say shame on you, but second, yes, this Talent likely provides value - just for all the wrong reasons.

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