Entertainer Talent for Troubadour

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Bonhumm
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Entertainer Talent for Troubadour

Post by Bonhumm » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:55 pm

Heya all.

I would like your opinion about how to interpret the description of the Entertainer skill-as-a-talent for Troubadours.

The way its written (This talent works like the Entertainer skill (p. 196), but does not require the adept to choose a specialty) gives me the feeling that it basically mean that the Troubadour can perform any kind of 'entertaining' without prior training or knowledge.

At first I thought I was probably not interpreting this correctly (when someone seems OP, its usually a misunderstanding) but then I realized that's its basically what the Melee Weapons talent do too: an Adept WILL be able to use ANY kind of melee weapon as efficiently as any other; no matter if someone has used a dagger at his life, he will be equally good with a pole-axe the first time he uses it (as long as the min STR requirement is met of course).

So would this indeed mean that the Troubadour could use any instrument even those he never heard of before? And/or being able to sing/act/tell stories or poetry without having done it before?

Slimcreeper
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Re: Entertainer Talent for Troubadour

Post by Slimcreeper » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:02 pm

In a word: yes. Troubadours are awesome.

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Entertainer Talent for Troubadour

Post by ChrisDDickey » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:54 am

Bonhumm wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:55 pm
So would this indeed mean that the Troubadour could use any instrument even those he never heard of before?
Or, for role-playing purposes, if you want you could say that he learns all instruments he has never heard of before about as quickly as he can learn a new language he has never heard spoken before, It takes about one minute. But in any case, yes, it is magical how well he learns and does all that stuff.

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Mataxes
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Re: Entertainer Talent for Troubadour

Post by Mataxes » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:50 pm

The intent of the Troubadour's "Entertainer" ability is to allow them to do all the various performance-related stuff that -- based on the Discipline concept -- they should be able to do. While at the same time not requiring them to pour Legend Points into multiple skills to have the rules reflect the fiction.

(The "Craftsman" ability for Weaponsmiths serves the same purpose.)

From a narrative/storytelling/character standpoint, I imagine many Troubadours actually do specialize in a couple of things, or become famous for a couple of things. But they're magically powered creative-types -- if they want to turn their mind to something, they're good enough to produce quality material.
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Slimcreeper
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Re: Entertainer Talent for Troubadour

Post by Slimcreeper » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:30 pm

If it seems overmuch, I could envision a house rule where the Troubadour adds a new specialization every Circle that stacks with your Entertainer Talent. So Circle 1 your Troubadour takes singing, at 2 Lute, at 3 Dancing, but I don't know that it would add anything. Or a Specialization similar to buying up Attribute points, 800 LP for a +1 to Lute, 1300 for a +1 to Lute and +1 to Singing or +2 to Lute. Again, I don't know that it would add anything to gameplay; just a matter of preference.

Sharkforce
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Re: Entertainer Talent for Troubadour

Post by Sharkforce » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:40 pm

if you're looking for a limitation, having a minimum exposure time before they can do that kind of performance would probably be my solution (so, let's say the exposure time is 1 hour, and they come across a new instrument. they could watch someone play it for an hour, or practice for an hour, and then they could use it normally).

but it isn't a skill. it's a magical talent. if it doesn't entirely make sense, well... it's magic. of course you and i couldn't play any instrument in existence to a professional level shortly after being introduced to the existence of those instruments, and neither could the greatest musicians in the world, but that's because we're not magically empowered. for all we know, troubadours tap into the "idea" of the instrument that wizards i'm sure would tell us is a thing and that's where they derive their knowledge. or maybe they have an ability to feel how the instrument is being used, that feeling having been imbued by whoever created the instrument or the people who have previously played it. somehow or other, it works, and since it isn't likely to be a game balance issue, i think that's perfectly fine.

Telarus
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Re: Entertainer Talent for Troubadour

Post by Telarus » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:33 am

I like Slimcreeper's idea, and I would implement it with Knacks. I'd have to re-read the knacks from the Companion, Questors, and Paths to see if there's any useful ones to model it after.

Bonhumm
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Re: Entertainer Talent for Troubadour

Post by Bonhumm » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:56 am

I wholly agree that the Entertainer Talent should 'magically enhanced' the Troubadour just like Melee Weapons do for combat classes. Its just that it sounded too good to be true so I wanted to make sure.

HOWEVER there is one aspect from it that I don't like; its a Free Talent.

Usually, one would be very happy to have the Talent follow the progression of the Circle for free but here it has a real downside at low circle (especially at creation): The Troubadour can do any and all 'entertainer' skills (any instruments, signing, dancing, acting etc).... at Rank 1, meaning that Joe Anybody who just put 2 points of skill in, for example, signing at creation will be better at it than a Troubadour.

Meh, nothing's perfect I guess.

Belenus
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Re: Entertainer Talent for Troubadour

Post by Belenus » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:00 pm

You can still use the optional rule from the companion on page 435:
INCREASING FREE TALENT RANKS wrote: The purpose of Free Talents is to provide characters of certain Disciplines with tools and abilities they are expected to have that may not directly influence play very often. These talents should increase as the character advances in Circle. Making them Discipline talents, however, requires the player to spend Legend Points on them, and these points might feel “wasted” if the talent doesn’t see use.
On the other hand, a drawback of free talents is that there’s no way for a player to increase them outside of advancing their character’s Circle. For those who wish for more flexibility in this aspect of character development, we offer the Increasing Free Talent Ranks optional rule.
With this rule in effect, characters may purchase ranks above their Circle in their free talent if they wish. The cost is equivalent to buying the same rank of a Novice-tier talent (Player’s Guide, p. 450). For example, a Third Circle character buying an extra rank in their free talent would need to pay 500 Legend Points. Normal limits and restrictions on purchasing talent ranks still apply.
When the character gains the free rank through Circle advancement (for example, the character previously described advances to Fourth Circle), there are a couple of different options available. Legend Points spent on the extra talent rank are refunded and the player is free to spend them as they wish (including pouring them back into the free talent).
The Legend Points are credited towards purchasing the next extra rank in the free talent (e.g., the character in our example would get 500 Legend credited toward buying rank 5, needing only 300 additional Legend Points).
The Legend Points are lost. Depending on the game, this can be unbalancing. It makes players who take advantage of this option spend points on something they would otherwise get for free if they were patient. This means fewer points to spend on other talents, permanent threads, and the like.

Telarus
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Re: Entertainer Talent for Troubadour

Post by Telarus » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:11 pm

Good options there. RAW would seem to mean that Troubadours probably do have a specialty as-a-skill when Novices, if they want to.

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