High Circle Preview: Warrior

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Mataxes
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High Circle Preview: Warrior

Post by Mataxes » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:32 pm

We're continuing the previews. This time around, the Warrior!

http://fasagames.com/2017/02/03/high-ci ... w-warrior/
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Loba
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Re: High Circle Preview: Warrior

Post by Loba » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:27 pm

Mataxes wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:32 pm
We're continuing the previews. This time around, the Warrior!

http://fasagames.com/2017/02/03/high-ci ... w-warrior/
I have to say, the fact that the higher circle warrior is never caught off guard is very strong. It covers one of the Warrior's most severe weaknesses.

The elemental nature effect making opponents "Harried" is a cool effect and I like it. I have some comments on it though:
  • Name: Elemental Warrior: Seems very elementalist-ish. Is this the intended style? I would have expected something more like "Alacritous Stance" or some such that indicated the Warrior moved with so expeditiously and with such alertness that their opponents suffered these effects.
  • Power: The Sky Raider Master Tier power seems a bit more powerful than this. Harried is -2. Even if this were changed to -3 I think it would then be on par. OR did play testing indicate that the -2 was sufficient?

Telarus
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Re: High Circle Preview: Warrior

Post by Telarus » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:52 pm

Warriors have been elemental-themed since first edition (Airdance, Woodskin, Gliding Stride, Earthskin, Missile Twister, Body Blade, Stone Skin). Heck, in 1e they even get Elemental Tongues at 11th circle and Elemental Hold at 13th. I take this to mean that the high-end game was dealing with great-form Named elemental spirits.

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The Undying
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Re: High Circle Preview: Warrior

Post by The Undying » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:36 pm

For me, the auto-Harried thing is actually a turn off. Magicians' shticks in ED4 are effects and not damage, debuffs (especially Harried for Elementalists) is something critical they bring to the table. This further erodes the magician space, making at least the warrior even more of a "I don't need any help" Discipline.

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The Undying
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Re: High Circle Preview: Warrior

Post by The Undying » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:04 pm

Bonus note: as a Discipline feature, I don't see how adversaries can do anything about it other than stay out of close combat. If this were changed to an effect, however, something like "each morning, the Warrior used his rudimentary knowledge of elemental spirits to contact a spirit and receive its aid, resulting in (the ability, with the specific element's manifestation)," then an argument could AT LEAST be made for Dispel Magic. That seems interesting to me: a Warrior raging in the battlefield as those nearby continually stumble when, suddenly, he feel the power of the element leave them and his enemies grin wickedly as they find their footing.

Of course, 1/day might be a bit punitive. It could also be a one minute ritual, but basically make it (a) something that can be disabled, and (b) something that can't just be restarted mid-combat.

Basically, as these new high-tier Discipline abilities are being drafted, I am just advising denial be taken into account. Many of them are single-turn things, which aren't deniable in Earthdawn, and that's fine. Things with duration, though, a definite decision needs to be made to either prevent them from being disabled (a la feature) or not (a la Discipline ritual). Very well could be this decision is being done on the back end - we don't get to see everything, we don't NEED to see everything (I just love seeing how the sausage is made) - it's just that this particular ability sticks out as something that REALLY deserves an off bottom that adversaries can trigger. And, bear in mind, I'm not just talking a way for GMs to harass players - player groups ARE eventually going to come up against Master Warriors, and I'm sure they, too, would love a way to disable this effect.

Dougansf
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Re: High Circle Preview: Warrior

Post by Dougansf » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:36 pm

The Undying wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:04 pm
Bonus note: as a Discipline feature, I don't see how adversaries can do anything about it other than stay out of close combat.
A 9th Circle Warrior would be immune to this 13th Circle ability.

Also, multiple Harried effects stack now, so the Magician still brings something to the table.

I love the flavor of the ability, driving home the elemental nature of the Warrior.

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The Undying
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Re: High Circle Preview: Warrior

Post by The Undying » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:20 pm

Dougansf wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:36 pm

A 9th Circle Warrior would be immune to this 13th Circle ability.

Also, multiple Harried effects stack now, so the Magician still brings something to the table.

I love the flavor of the ability, driving home the elemental nature of the Warrior.
A 9th Circle Warrior would be unaffected if and only if there are no other Harried sources in play. He is not "immune" to it. Plus this is like saying nuclear weapons aren't overpowered because cockroaches can survive them - most of us aren't cockroaches. :D Similarly, a Warden+ Warrior likely being unaffected by a Master Warrior ability doesn't negate the fact that all the other Disciplines and non-Adept creatures would be affected.

As for the "Harried stacks" thing, I don't believe you are correct. Could you provide a citation?

Dougansf
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Re: High Circle Preview: Warrior

Post by Dougansf » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:43 pm

The Undying wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:20 pm
As for the "Harried stacks" thing, I don't believe you are correct. Could you provide a citation?
ED4 PG page 388 wrote: Overwhelmed
Multiple sources of distraction could further disorient an already harried character. A harried character suffers a further –1 penalty to his tests and Defense ratings for each additional harried effect he incurs after the first.

Lys
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Re: High Circle Preview: Warrior

Post by Lys » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:55 pm

That's not new. It was an optional rule in Earthdawn Classic, and an actual rule in Earthdawn 3rd Edition.

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The Undying
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Re: High Circle Preview: Warrior

Post by The Undying » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:25 pm

Dougansf wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:43 pm
The Undying wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:20 pm
As for the "Harried stacks" thing, I don't believe you are correct. Could you provide a citation?
ED4 PG page 388 wrote: Overwhelmed
Multiple sources of distraction could further disorient an already harried character. A harried character suffers a further –1 penalty to his tests and Defense ratings for each additional harried effect he incurs after the first.
Awesome, thank you sir. I guess it just never comes up for us and slipped out of my mind as a result.

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