Optional Rules for Companion

[CPFCPF]

Something from the Stacking thread:

Allow a caster to cast a spell the same round he completes he weaves the last required thread.
A variant is: Allow a caster to cast a spell the same round the pattern is completed if an addition success is rolled on the final Thread Weaving test.

In previous editions, I'd allow them to do it if they got an Excellent Success and that worked well. So maybe they can spend 2 Successes on a Thread Weaving roll to cast immediately.

I would add that as a talent knack!

[Lys]

Do you have an example? Because every power i know of so far is adding wounds. For example skin shift: You get the wounds per success and additional wounds for the damage. That still works fine.

As far as i can tell there is exactly one such power, found in the preview for High-Circle Sky Raiders: "Vicious Wound reduces an opponent’s Wound Threshold against the Sky Raider’s attacks, and allows the Sky Raider to deal multiple Wounds if the damage result is high enough." It seems to me though that even if multiple wounds is the default rule, Vicous Wound is still utterly brutal because by lowering the Wound Threshold it makes it much easier to deal multiple wounds. So i continue to see no downside to having multiple wounds by default, other than making it easier to cripple someone in combat, which i consider is an upside not a downside.

[The Undying]

There isn't a downside, per say...

One thing you'll hear me say often is basically that house rule changes have a tendency to fundamentally alter power levels, effectively making certain things stronger and certain things weaker. Whenever you change numbers or mechanics, this is bound to happen. As long as the table takes this into consideration, does their best to anticipate the changes, applies them fairly to PCs and NPCs, then it is what it is: each table should play the Earthdawn that is most enjoyable to them.

For this SPECIFIC topic, let try to make Mataxes's point more concrete:

(1) Sky Raiders eventually get a power that does two things: lowers Wound Threshold (WT) of target -and- inflicts one wound for each multiple of WT damage inflicted. For example, target originally has a WT of 15, ability lowers it to 8, damage roll is 30, resulting in 3 wounds (30 / 8 = 3 [24 + 6]) instead of 1.

Impression: Wow, this is HUGE - easier to inflict wounds AND can inflict multiples? Man, this Discipline can land some crippling blows, meaning s/he can EFFECTIVELY end the conflict (one hit, three wounds?!) even if s/he doesn't outright kill the opponent! *squee of joy*

(2) House rule: As a global change to damage rolls, one wound is inflicted for each multiple of WT damage inflicted.

Impression: Ok ... so, now, this super high-Circle Sky Raiders ability only lowers WT. Feels kind of less impressive for a Circle X ability. I mean, it's still COOL, but it is certainly less cool... Can almost be replaced with a damage bonus ability ...

A different way to look at it is abilities that provide exemptions tend to be cool because they provide exemptions. Spells that bypass armor are cool because they bypass armor - if you effectively re-implement armor defeating blows, this is far less cool. And so forth.

[Telarus]

It definitely changes the feel of combat, especially as Wounds give penalties starting from the first one now.

I am also playing with multiple Wounds per damage roll for Units of crew and mass-combat troops, and Squads for 6-second rounds. Units/Squads also _take_ multiple wounds per hit by default, and must make a Casualty check for every Wound taken in mass combat instead of tracking individual damage points among the unit. It is what sets a group of 5 guys apart from a 5th circle adept.

[Lys]

While the Undying raises a fair point, one must also consider that Vicious Wound is a Fourteenth Circle Talent. Players are going to get to play it basically never, since it's extremely rare for games to even reach that high a circle. Meanwhile the normal rules for wounds are something that they will interact with close to every single fight, and i feel like the combat dynamics are strongly improved by having multiple wounds be a thing. Having it so that 30 damage causes more wounds than 10 damage just feels right at every level. As a narrative element it makes logical sense that heavy hits can be crippling, and as a gameplay element it makes hits feel more substantial. Which is precisely why it's not uncommon for groups to interpret the rules that way and not even realize it's supposed to be one wound. So yeah there's a trade-off, every tweak to the mechanics you make will always have trade-offs, with upsides and downsides. The thing is that the the trade off i'm looking at here is making all combats feel better, versus making a single talent that's likely to never come up better. Picking the former is about as close to upside with no downsides as you're going to get.

[The Undying]

Again, as Mataxes (and others?) said, this wound inflict change would affect multiple things.

More examples can be found in the Nethermancer spells "Pain" and "Bone Pudding." These are the only sub-Master abilities that produce multiple Wound effects. These are unique to Nethermancer, cool because they side step the restriction, and have some nice other effects in the case of Bone Pudding. Allowing normal damage to inflict multiple Wounds effectively nueters these spells, in the very least making them over costed in Threads, potentially LP/Circle. You're watering down a cool iconic UNIQUE niche of the Nethermancer.

Separately, I would argue that combat dynamics are NEGATIVELY impacted by allowing multiple wounds. That system HEAVILY favors Disciplines, Talents, & weapons that inflict more damage in a single hit. Multiple hits in a round have to make their way trough armor for each hit; one incredibly hard hit only has to get through once. Somewhere recently, either Mataxes or Panda noted the balance they had to try to maintain between the pros and cons of two handed weapons, versus weapon and shield, versus dual wielding weapons. This change greatly improves two handed weapons. The end result is driving the party more to that realm, and potentially players that can't do it effectively feeling cheated because, in essence, their niche (the other two) got made less effective (in comparison).

Other items in that realm that don't need as much explanation:
- multiple wounds as a rule makes exploding dice way too powerful; a lucky role on either side can destroy an opponent with penalties, regardless of how much health they have left
- wounds significantly change the combat dynamic; alowing them to trickle in like the current system hightens drama whereas going from "fine" to "-3 all tests" basically ends the combat
- it neuters a viable design element: high health enemies, with or without low armor. The challenge rating and all stats are all "priced" based on the existing system of one wound per attack. Allowing them to roll on faster can and should change any or all those elements

VERY few changes are "simple" and "have no down side"...

[The Undying]

Which is precisely why it's not uncommon for groups to interpret the rules that way and not even realize it's supposed to be one wound.

The Players Guide could have made it more plainly stated, but I think it is clear enough: "if the damage from a single attack equals or exceeds a character's Wound Threshold, he takes a wound." I understand not everyone is great with math (and that isn't intended as a slight), but a number can only "equal or exceed" another number once, not multiple times, and "he takes a Wound," not "he takes a number of Wounds equal to the damage divided by his Wound Threshold" or some less-math-y statement.

[Slimcreeper]

It's not that it's unclear, or a systematic problem with math education and the state of the world today. It's that it is very intuitive for 30 damage to cause more wounds than 12. On a quick read, lots people assume that's what it means.

[CPFCPF]

While the Undying raises a fair point, one must also consider that Vicious Wound is a Fourteenth Circle Talent. Players are going to get to play it basically never, since it's extremely rare for games to even reach that high a circle. Meanwhile the normal rules for wounds are something that they will interact with close to every single fight, and i feel like the combat dynamics are strongly improved by having multiple wounds be a thing. Having it so that 30 damage causes more wounds than 10 damage just feels right at every level. As a narrative element it makes logical sense that heavy hits can be crippling, and as a gameplay element it makes hits feel more substantial. Which is precisely why it's not uncommon for groups to interpret the rules that way and not even realize it's supposed to be one wound. So yeah there's a trade-off, every tweak to the mechanics you make will always have trade-offs, with upsides and downsides. The thing is that the the trade off i'm looking at here is making all combats feel better, versus making a single talent that's likely to never come up better. Picking the former is about as close to upside with no downsides as you're going to get.

If you ever get the Skyraidertalent to be played in your campaign and still feel it is too weak, you are free to give the talent an additional bonus to lowering the wound threshhold or it simply always deals a wound plus what it does right now. It would be rather easy to give it a boost.

[Dougansf]

I thought of some more Optional Rules it would be great to see.

Minion rules: I've heard of having enemies surrender / flee if they take a Wound. I've used this in my past 2 sessions, and it's helped combat speed greatly. I also considered making them flee when they reach about half of their Unconsciousness Rating.

Gang / Mob rules: After a few Circles, it seems that non-Adepts are hard pressed to be a challenge, but a mob of them might still be. Rules for treating a group of minions as a single unit would be great.

Disclaimer: I'm running an online game for 3 hours every other week. Anything that speeds up combat and moves the story along is a great help.