Question about the Passions

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Mataxes
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Re: Question about the Passions

Post by Mataxes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:09 pm

Dougansf wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:26 am
Any answer to my original question about Powers being affected by Dispel Magic?
My gut says probably, but we haven't gotten to the point of developing specific powers yet, and deciding if Dispel Magic should apply.

Note: There has been some scaling back of Dispel Magic in ED4 compared to earlier versions. It affects spells and talents, but not other magical effects that are not spells or talents. So it can't dispel creature or Horror powers, for instance, which at least some versions of the spell could.
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Re: Question about the Passions

Post by Tattered Rags » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:03 pm

By extension then it probably can't dispel Passion powers.

Which leaves open the possibility that Questor powers also cannot be dispelled. If that is the case, it provides a balance for Questor powers if they are weaker than comparable Talents and spells.

I'm willing to accept Questor powers being akin to creature or Horror powers.
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The Undying
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Re: Question about the Passions

Post by The Undying » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:13 pm

Regardless of where things fall, it'd be nice to have a simple, clean nomenclature for this stuff. Probably just: Spells, Talents, Powers. Things that are "Talent-like" (same means and mechanisms) but not Talents are Powers. Dispel Magic works on Spells and Talents but not Powers. I believe Horror 'abilities' are already called Powers. When the time comes for Questors, you can just use the appropriate term for which direction you decide.

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Re: Question about the Passions

Post by PiXeL01 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:24 pm

Aren't horror powers seen as curses?

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Re: Question about the Passions

Post by Mataxes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:38 pm

PiXeL01 wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:24 pm
Aren't horror powers seen as curses?
Not necessarily, but the ongoing negative effects of them are affected by the "Suppress Curse" talent.
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Re: Question about the Passions

Post by Dougansf » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:59 pm

The Undying wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:13 pm
Regardless of where things fall, it'd be nice to have a simple, clean nomenclature for this stuff. Probably just: Spells, Talents, Powers. Things that are "Talent-like" (same means and mechanisms) but not Talents are Powers. Dispel Magic works on Spells and Talents but not Powers. I believe Horror 'abilities' are already called Powers. When the time comes for Questors, you can just use the appropriate term for which direction you decide.
The difference in nomenclature is precisely why I had a doubt about this in the first place.

I might expect keeping Horror Powers separate in some fashion might be key for any future Horror Stalker discipline that may come down the pipe.

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Re: Question about the Passions

Post by The Undying » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:14 am

Dougansf wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:59 pm
The difference in nomenclature is precisely why I had a doubt about this in the first place.
That's why I'd suggested that extra bit to combine it all together. In my concept, we'd end up with something like this:
Magical abilities generally fall into three categories: Spells, Talents, and Powers. Dispel Magic can be used to cancel ongoing effects from Spells and Talents, regardless of who or what is being affected. Suppress Curse can be used to cancel ongoing effects from Powers (or maybe just Horror Powers) when the target of the effect is different than the source (e.g., can't cancel a Power that a Horror uses to buff itself). Unless otherwise noted:
  • Spells are the results of successful Spellcasting tests or the result of Thread Item abilities.
  • Discipline-derived abilities are Talents.
  • Passion-derived (e.g., for Questors) are Powers.
That establishes the nomenclature but then actually explains how they're different.

This raises an interesting question - if a Questor of a Mad Passion used a non-Talent ability (let's just call it a Power) with an ongoing negative effect on someone, could that ability be canceled with Suppress Curse? And that's only the "evil effecting good" side. Then there's the "good effecting evil" side. Lochust may grant some abilities/Powers to punish/curse slavers, for example. If you're an Adept slaver, would Suppress Curse be applicable here?

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Re: Question about the Passions

Post by Tattered Rags » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:01 pm

Suppress Curse specifically says "curse or negative magical effect." There should be no good or evil aspect. If a Questor of Lochust or Floranuus or even Garlen herself used a Power against you that had an ongoing negative portion, then Suppress Curse should work.

I like the clean cut of Spell, Talent, Power.

To further add to the ideas already presented:
Spells: ad hoc or temporary Patterns created through Threadweaving and Spellcasting
Talents: magical Patterns that are trained over and over again to allow Adepts to perform magical feats
Powers: innate or granted Patterns giving creatures, Horrors, Passions, etc., ability to perform magical feats, with no training required to learn them (though they may need training to get better)
Powers can then be further broken down by source (Horror, Passion) and whether innate (Horrors, Passions, creatures) or granted (Questors, Horror Cultists [make this a thing, please!]).
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