Mystic Paths Disciplines

Discussion on the Earthdawn game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or GMing.
Post Reply
Sushy
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:06 pm

Mystic Paths Disciplines

Post by Sushy » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:41 pm

Hello All,


On Mystic Path I think some Major and Minor Infos are missing for the new Disciplines.

1) For the Shaman and Gauntlet the Health Rate values are missing. I think it should be 4/3 for Shaman and 9/7 for Gaunlet?

2) For the new ones a Info about other Disciplins (1st/2nd) which match with the new ways are missing also matching Questor Path would be good.

3) Some specific Question/Thoughts for the Gauntlet: His role is clear a Major Infight Tank and his Attack is a devastating blast. But he has no possibility to do another attack. I think a second attack Talent is missing like the other Combat disciplines get. Swift Kick could be one Talent Option missing in lower Circles. But there is no Second Attack Talent coming in C8/C9. In this Content: with Body Control considered his Attack as a Weapon can he use Second Attack in Unarmed Combat (in the Moment only via Skill). I think is attack is quit good but a second attack is truly missing. And what about Initiative? No possible enhancement there as well e.g. TigerSpring. Don't think Air Dance would fit, but Tiger Spring or Cobra Strike could match in this way. He always will be last in higher cicles as Warrior like Char and even Swift Kick as Skill is just useless then. Front Tank with one single attack each round at last position. Don't think that this would be the idea behind this char or?

So thats my ideas thoughts and questions.

User avatar
Mataxes
Posts: 687
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:39 pm
Location: The Great Library
Contact:

Re: Mystic Paths Disciplines

Post by Mataxes » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:36 pm

Sushy wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:41 pm
Hello All,


On Mystic Path I think some Major and Minor Infos are missing for the new Disciplines.

1) For the Shaman and Gauntlet the Health Rate values are missing. I think it should be 4/3 for Shaman and 9/7 for Gaunlet?
That's included as the "Durability" rating given for each as part of their First Circle information (It's Durability 7 for Gauntlet and Durability 3 for Shaman).
2) For the new ones a Info about other Disciplins (1st/2nd) which match with the new ways are missing also matching Questor Path would be good.
While I understand the desire for that sort of thing, there's only so much space available, and needing to cover that for all of the paths and Disciplines isn't necessarily feasible.
3) Some specific Question/Thoughts for the Gauntlet: His role is clear a Major Infight Tank and his Attack is a devastating blast. But he has no possibility to do another attack. I think a second attack Talent is missing like the other Combat disciplines get. Swift Kick could be one Talent Option missing in lower Circles. But there is no Second Attack Talent coming in C8/C9. In this Content: with Body Control considered his Attack as a Weapon can he use Second Attack in Unarmed Combat (in the Moment only via Skill). I think is attack is quit good but a second attack is truly missing. And what about Initiative? No possible enhancement there as well e.g. TigerSpring. Don't think Air Dance would fit, but Tiger Spring or Cobra Strike could match in this way. He always will be last in higher cicles as Warrior like Char and even Swift Kick as Skill is just useless then. Front Tank with one single attack each round at last position. Don't think that this would be the idea behind this char or?
The intention of the Gauntlet is not only to make them an unarmed-combat focused Discipline, but also one that focuses on strength/endurance rather than speed. Their unique/special talents give them larger bonuses the later they act in the round. Initiative talents (like Tiger Spring) work directly counter to that goal.

So while we appreciate the feedback, it misses the Discipline's nuances.
Josh Harrison - josh@fasagames.com
Earthdawn Line Developer, Forum Admin

Personal Website: www.loremerchant.com

Sushy
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:06 pm

Re: Mystic Paths Disciplines

Post by Sushy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:22 am

Ok Thx, it seems I just overread this part with Durability, dont know why.

Ok I get the Point of Endurance vs Strengh, I saw this Kind of Talents later fine.
Still I ask myself About his unarmed-combat. So he will have only one attack in Combat. He does not get a Second Assault. What is the idea behind that? I see he gets lot Bonus for his one strike but compared to all other disciplin he fear he will just fall behind in higher circles.

Sushy
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:06 pm

Re: Mystic Paths Disciplines

Post by Sushy » Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:40 pm

Maybe just one comment back to the Initiative idea.
If he is considered to fullfill his power at the end of the round. Maneuver as Talent Option should be changed as you Need to be first on turn to have a Benefit on that.:)

Panda
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Mystic Paths Disciplines

Post by Panda » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:19 pm

Greetings,

The Physical Defense increase from Maneuver does require the adept to go first, however the bonus to the next Attack test does not. As well, there are Maneuver knacks (and more to come) that do not require the adept to go first to benefit from them. Manuever is available as a talent option not just for what it does, but also what it can do. It may not be a popular choice because of that, but it is wholly appropriate for the Discipline mechanically and thematically.

Gauntlets only get one attack (and are specifically limited only to one attack) because of the bonuses they can apply to that attack. It also goes to the philosophy of the Discipline of deliberate action. Disciplines aren't just about how much damage they can do. Gauntlets overcome a lot of defenses through their high attack and damage, and typically have a great deal of armor due to low initiative not being a concern. Their emphasis on only one powerful attack helps set them apart from other combat Disciplines, who typically favor multiple attacks (in particular the other unarmed combat-focused Discipline, Beastmaster).

It's important to note no changes are going to be made to the mechanics of the Disciplines in Mystic Paths at this time. Phrasing can be change to account for unintentional confusion or important circumstances. However, fundamentally changing the thesis of a Discipline is off the table.

Hopefully this answers any remaining questions.

Best regards,

Morgan

Sushy
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:06 pm

Re: Mystic Paths Disciplines

Post by Sushy » Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:35 pm

Thx.

I did got that Idea behind the disciplin.
Just didnt know About the Maneuver Knacks. Just thought that only haveing half of Talent usefull would a less good Option.
Will check for these new knacks.

And good to know that the stuff will not Change in core as we already started using them and don't want to switch everything again.

Lursi
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:09 pm
Location: Münster

Re: Mystic Paths Disciplines

Post by Lursi » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:05 am

I think one of the issues why some perceived the Gauntlet to be inferior is the almost absent cost of wearing armor to actions .

It is reducing initiative a bit and thats it.

Encumbrance should give a penalty to all movement based actions and not
increase the reaction time asymmetry between a mage and a warrior both wearing a hardened leather.

Then, we would also see more of the lightly armored elven warrior who shines through excellent sword play and maneuvering.

At present he is just shadowed by a much harder armored version that can pull off the same show.

So, make armor change the style you can fight. Then, a gauntlet with the power to negate some armor penalties, or a swift warrior relying on not being hit will shine.
Of all things I lost, sanity I held dearest.

ragbasti
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:09 pm

Re: Mystic Paths Disciplines

Post by ragbasti » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:28 pm

I think you are underestimating the power of these single attacks. High-circle gauntlets can easily get upwards of +15-20 to a single attack from just two talents. And they are not very likely to get avoided or parried, just due to the much higher attack steps they will have compared to pretty much anyone.

That goes before the bonus they also get to their damage test. They get both crushing blow AND critical hit. And with their attack bonus, triggering critical hit should be a given.
Their talent options are also all very powerful and useful, no matter if you want to go full combat or with something more well-rounded.

Overall, the gauntlet is my personal wet dream, something that offers an alternative to Earthdawn's martial disciplines that I've always disliked, the "whoever goes first, wins"-mentality.

Sharkforce
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:39 am

Re: Mystic Paths Disciplines

Post by Sharkforce » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:38 pm

i don't have the book, but i can definitely see how a single high damage hit could work as well or better than multiple low damage hits simply because armour is subtracting a flat number off of each one... but i will note that it will mostly only be valuable against enemies with very high armour.

likewise, one very accurate attack can be more valuable than multiple weak attacks... but mostly only against enemies with very high defense that you otherwise would struggle greatly to hit.

generally speaking though, i'm not sure that's going to be a particularly common scenario in earthdawn. i mean, i suppose if you're finding yourself fighting a lot of cave crabs, being able to deal enough damage to get through armour with ease is a bit unusual, but i don't think that's the standard, exactly.

i suppose it probably at least has an advantage in terms of how much strain you take per round if you're only making one attack... at least, i hope the strain values aren't so large as to make it no better than someone launching several attacks per round.

but i must admit, i'm a bit skeptical that this is going to match other warrior types in damage output. i suppose i'll be picking up the book eventually, and i'll have to take a look, because i doubt i'm hearing *everything* relevant to the discussion and there may be something i'm missing that completely redeems the concept, but i'm not hearing anything that makes me think the damage is going to be as good, and i worry that extremely powerful defence is only valuable if the enemy you're facing has an urgent reason to attack you instead of your allies with weaker defences but superior offence.

Post Reply