Companion Enchanting

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Belenus
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Companion Enchanting

Post by Belenus » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:41 pm

I have a question about the costs and design aspects for enchanting (p. 134).
For example the "Traveler's Mug":

|Common Magic Item|Rank|EDN|Cost|Design Aspects
|Traveler’s Mug-------|--4--|--8--|175-| O, Wa

Do the costs already include the Design Aspects or do they come on top of that?
And how can Orichalcum be part of the entchanting, when it costs around 1000s?

And what exactly is the meaning of "Any items needing a specific crafted item (e.g. boots), require the enchanter to also possess the relevant crafting skill, and the lower of the relevant abilities (Alchemy or crafting) is used on the enchanting test.The item cannot be acquired separately, but the cost is factored into the material costs for the item."?
Why can't I use shoes I already have in my possession? Ok, shoes are quite a bad example, but if I'm wearing my favorite coat since the beginning of my adventures, why shouldn't it be possible to entchant it?

Panda
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Re: Companion Enchanting

Post by Panda » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:05 pm

Greetings,

The costs are included and traveler's mug is an oddity which will never fit with any system which tries to present a generic system which is at all user friendly. The description has always included orichalcum, so it is clearly part of the construction.

It means exactly what it says. If you want to create enchanted boots, you need to be able to make the boots in addition to having the Alchemy skill (or appropriate knack). You can't enchant your coat for the same reason your plain wool coat can't be a polar fleece. That's not what it is and it can never be that. Enchanting isn't casting a spell or dipping it in magic goo. It's creating an item from the ground up to be magical. This means the cloth is woven with the alchemical reagents and often True elements, then turned into a coat using procedures to enhance that treatment, binding it all together. To do this, the enchanter needs to be able to do every aspect of it.

Belenus
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Re: Companion Enchanting

Post by Belenus » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:37 pm

Greetings,

I can live with that answer, makes a lot more sense now, thanks :D

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Companion Enchanting

Post by ChrisDDickey » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:57 am

Our table has been finding enchanting really confusing.
I personally would appreciate a couple of long all-inclusive examples of a few adventuring type's doing a few custom enchantings, including some phrases such as "he wants to make some magic boots, but while he has 10 ranks in Wizardry, he has no ranks in the cobbling skill, and so he ...".
Some examples of things that can be easily done, some examples of things that just can't reasonably be done by certain characters, and explanations of why they can't do it, or what they would need to learn in order to do it, and some examples of difficult but possible things. I think that would shine a great deal of light upon what is for me a very murky topic.

Belenus
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Re: Companion Enchanting

Post by Belenus » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:04 pm

Greetings, me again ^^
I still found another error with the Traveler’s Mug

Rank: 4
Availability: Rare
Total Materials Cost: 175 sp
• Alchemical Materials Cost: 50 sp
• Specific Materials: Orichalcum (50 sp), True water (25 sp)
Enchanting Difficulty: 8
Time Required: 4 days (1 day)
Suggested Pattern Cost: 2000 sp
Notes: Begin with a finely crafted steel mug. The healing and endurance
symbols should be wrought of fine metals.

50 + 50 + 25 = 125, not 175. I guess the cost for Orichalcum should be 100 then?

LouP
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Re: Companion Enchanting

Post by LouP » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:20 pm

Panda wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:05 pm
It means exactly what it says. If you want to create enchanted boots, you need to be able to make the boots in addition to having the Alchemy skill (or appropriate knack). You can't enchant your coat for the same reason your plain wool coat can't be a polar fleece. That's not what it is and it can never be that. Enchanting isn't casting a spell or dipping it in magic goo. It's creating an item from the ground up to be magical. This means the cloth is woven with the alchemical reagents and often True elements, then turned into a coat using procedures to enhance that treatment, binding it all together. To do this, the enchanter needs to be able to do every aspect of it.
I think I understand the point here, but I'm not sure this makes a lot of sense in terms of world building. This means that either Enchanting is *extremely* common and is practiced by craftsmen of all kinds (cobblers, clothiers, blacksmiths, etc.), or Enchanters also have *lots and lots* of craftsmen skills. Neither of these seems ideal or plausible (IMO, of course).

The image I always had in my head of enchanting using true elements and orichalcum was more akin to magically "weaving" the enchanting materials into existing objects (i.e. the object and the kernels of the elements would magically fuse together).


Thanks!

Lou Prosperi

Belenus
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Re: Companion Enchanting

Post by Belenus » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:24 pm

And the note on page 158 even indicates, that it doesn't have to be created at the same time:
Cloak, Everclean
Rank: 3
Availability: Rare
Total Materials Cost: 125 sp
• Alchemical Materials Cost: 75 sp
• Specific Materials: True air (25 sp) and True water (25 sp)
Enchanting Difficulty: 8
Time Required: 4 days (1 day)
Suggested Pattern Cost: 1500 sp
Notes: Tradition dictates that this is done when the cloak is still new or at minimum very clean.

But I have another question aswell I need to have answered really fast if possible:
The Errata says:
Example Enchanting Patterns, Pages 153-175
Errata: Due to versioning errors, there are discrepancies between the sample recipes provided on these pages and the item creation guidelines earlier in the chapter. This is most obvious with some of the sample thread items and the table on page 144. When there is a discrepancy, the tables earlier in the chapter take precedence over the expanded examples.
Is there already an overview where the mistakes are for the thread items? It seems impossible to check the real EDN without knowing what aspects, blood magic, etc. have to be used.

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Mataxes
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Re: Companion Enchanting

Post by Mataxes » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:46 pm

Belenus wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:24 pm
Is there already an overview where the mistakes are for the thread items? It seems impossible to check the real EDN without knowing what aspects, blood magic, etc. have to be used.
In general, the aspects and such given in the descriptions for the items are correct, but if you compare what the EDN (and/or pattern creation difficulty) should be based on the tables, you get a different result.

In this thread, somebody went through and recalculated the relevant numbers, though Morgan (Panda) had some additional notes.
Josh Harrison - josh@fasagames.com
Earthdawn Line Developer, Forum Admin

Personal Website: www.loremerchant.com

ChrisDDickey
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Re: Companion Enchanting

Post by ChrisDDickey » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:03 pm

LouP wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:20 pm
I think I understand the point here, but I'm not sure this makes a lot of sense in terms of world building. This means that either Enchanting is *extremely* common and is practiced by craftsmen of all kinds (cobblers, clothiers, blacksmiths, etc.), or Enchanters also have *lots and lots* of craftsmen skills. Neither of these seems ideal or plausible (IMO, of course).
I think the "world building" sense, is not that enchanters are common, but that each enchanter is also a master craftsman in one, or possibly two other skills. There would be clans somewhere churning out 'Boots of the Huntsman' using the pattern left to them by great-great-grand-pappy. They are enchanters and master cobblers. If they also had or were provided with a pattern for 'Dry boots', they could also make those (since they are enchanters and master cobblers), but there is no way that they could make a magic cloak or a magic ring since they are not master weavers or jewelers. There are weaver/enchanters and jeweler/enchanters that make those those things.

I think the practical low-down for adventurers on this, however, is that practically speaking, enchanting common magic items is almost the sole province of NPC's. It is not worth a PCs time. I am fine with that, I always felt that adventurers ought to be out adventuring, not puttering around in a workshop.
Last edited by ChrisDDickey on Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

gortatrien
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Re: Companion Enchanting

Post by gortatrien » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:04 pm

Belenus wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:04 pm
Greetings, me again ^^
I still found another error with the Traveler’s Mug

Rank: 4
Availability: Rare
Total Materials Cost: 175 sp
• Alchemical Materials Cost: 50 sp
• Specific Materials: Orichalcum (50 sp), True water (25 sp)
Enchanting Difficulty: 8
Time Required: 4 days (1 day)
Suggested Pattern Cost: 2000 sp
Notes: Begin with a finely crafted steel mug. The healing and endurance
symbols should be wrought of fine metals.

50 + 50 + 25 = 125, not 175. I guess the cost for Orichalcum should be 100 then?
The Alchemical Materials amount is wrong according to the table on 140. The cost should be Alchemical Materials (Rank * 25) + orichalcum (50) + true water (25) = 175

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