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They's why I stated, that if the trust is big enough between those making a blood oath, the obsidian will never come in a situation as described above, because the group will come to his help instead of staying in his way.
Statistics:Posted by Belenus — Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:20 am
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I further still see that a group sticking together is adding a bonus to the individual’s sanity.
Combined it means that a group is more attractive as target but more difficult to penetrate.
That makes sense.
It also prevents greenhorns to form such patterns too early and puts a risk against the (otherwise very cheap) benefits.
Thank you for the inspiration.
Statistics:Posted by Lursi — Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:54 am
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Also, for a horror, operating in communities is dangerous, even for powerful and subtle horrors. You never can tell when a group of powerful adventurers are going to show up and ruin your carefully laid plans.
But if a powerful and subtle horror can get some fool to open a magically vulnerable link to an entire life-rock, or exert its influence through an existing link... Much, much safer. An entire community to eat, and the horror does not have to be physically touching the rock, nor go to the trouble to infect/corrupt the population one by one. Inject its corruption directly into the liferock though your corrupted thread, and start feasting.
Again, yes horrors can and do infect whole communities of non-obsidimen. But the lore seems to say that Obsidimen have reason to think that an Obsidiman making a Blood Oath is a particular and specific risk to his liferock. Since there are horrors looking for feasts, you don't want to be the easiest of prey. You want to be more troublesome than the feast is worth so that it will go elsewhere looking for the easy meal.
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I am going to respond to the obvious criticism before it is asked. I don't have anything to support the following, I am just taking as stated that Obsidimen are more wary than usual about blood oaths, and make up one possible explanation for why.
Criticism: But if horrors can infect a liferock through an individual members link to it, can't it just grab any Obsidiman and infect the whole liferock. Why would blood oaths make a liferock more vulnerable?
Obsidimen are connected to their liferock. The lore states that if a liferock is damaged, destroyed, or corrupted, the Obsidimen from that liferock also suffer similarly. However that aspect of the relationship seems to be one-way. Corruption to a liferock corrupts its members. Corruption to members does not normally corrupt liferocks.
However blood oaths form a newer, bigger, wider connection between the Obsidiman and some other pattern. This 2nd pathway is a two-way path, and strength flows both to the member, and from the member to all other members. It is not inconceivable that this new pathway in some manner affects the connection an Obsidiman has to his own liferock, and allows corruption to be injected through himself to his liferock.
Again, I have no support for the above, I merely present it as one of the possible explanations for why Obsidimen are wary about blood oaths. I don't say "I don't understand why this should be so, so therefore it is not so". Instead I say "what is a possible explanation for what has been stated as being so, being so". There are many other potential explanations if one cares to imagine them.
Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:32 am
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Statistics:Posted by Sharkforce — Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:48 am
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ChrisDDickey wrote: ↑
This is basically the backstory premise behind the adventure collection Blades.Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:29 pm
If a sufficiently sophisticated horror gets it's hooks into your your group pattern, you, and everybody in the group might be screwed.Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:34 pm
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Lursi wrote: ↑
I'd see that as a bit like computer networking:Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:10 am
That would mean that group patterns for large groups are just another word for suicide.- Having a computer completely disconnected from any network is completely safe.... and not that useful.
- Being connected to the internet through a small lan makes your more versatile and the people using it can pool their resources/money to make it safe(r).
- Being connected to a large lan (company etc) should make it even safer (I know, I know, big≠well run).
But yes, just BEING connected to a network is a potential security breach; the question is are you willing to risk it or not considering the advantages?
Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:32 pm
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Lursi wrote: ↑
Such is my understanding. (which may not be correct)Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:10 am
Hm.. so you say if one (member of a group) gets horror marked that horror has a path to all (members)?And of course clearly not all horrors have the sophisticated powers to use such a link. But the subtle and sophisticated horrors have always been a bigger cause of concern than the mindless brutes.
But my understanding of the objection that Obsidiman have to Blood Oaths is that they are a perceived risk to the Obsidimans liferocks and everybody linked to it (many of whom are not adepts, and thus have lessor defenses than adepts). I don't know if the risk is perceived as one way or both ways.
Pattern Items are a well-known risk to everybody. If a sufficiently powerful horror obtains the personal pattern item you used to join a group pattern, or gets it's hooks into the group pattern item, you are certainly screwed. If a sufficiently sophisticated horror gets it's hooks into your your group pattern, you, and everybody in the group might be screwed. Don't join a group in which pattern item security is not taken very, very seriously by each and every member.
Being a member of a strong group means that you have strong allies to call upon for your defense, and the group pattern makes you and your allies stronger. But like an aqueduct into a citadel, the pattern thread itself is a weakness through which strength flows.
Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:29 pm
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Panda had a very interesting post in regards to that
(not official but I like it)
Statistics:Posted by ragbasti — Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:06 pm
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ChrisDDickey wrote: ↑
. Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:39 am
If a horror gets his hooks into a member of a group, it has a path to get its hooks into every member of that group. And into every member of every liferock that has a member in that GroupBelenus wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:41 pmAnyway, the condition for a group pattern is always that the characters blindly trust each other.
So if one clarifies ingame in advance that the group will stand by the Obsidian in case of a threat to the liferock, or at least not in the way of the Obsidian, there should be no objections.
Hm.. so you say if one Lightbearer gets horror marked that horror has a path to all Lightbearers?
That would mean that group patterns for large groups are just another word for suicide.
As they say”strength is in numbers” I wonder whether such ruling makes sense.
In my opinion, the opposite should be the case. Once you are part of a strong group, it should be harder to twist your soul.
Statistics:Posted by Lursi — Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:10 am
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Belenus wrote: ↑
So if one clarifies ingame in advance that the group will stand by the Obsidian in case of a threat to the liferock, or at least not in the way of the Obsidian, there should be no objections.
If a horror gets his hooks into a member of a group, it has a path to get its hooks into every member of that group. And into every member of every liferock that has a member in that group. Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:41 pm
Anyway, the condition for a group pattern is always that the characters blindly trust each other.So if one clarifies ingame in advance that the group will stand by the Obsidian in case of a threat to the liferock, or at least not in the way of the Obsidian, there should be no objections.
There is a difference between "I trust you with my life and soul", and "I trust you with the lives and souls of everybody within my extended family".
It is not a matter of trust, it is a matter of safety. There is a huge difference between "I wager my life and soul", and "I wager the life and soul of everybody I care about".
Finally, it is very definitely and specifically not just a matter between an Obsidiman and his Group. It is very specifically an issue between each and every member of the Obsidimans liferock and each member of the one Obsidimans group.
Not everybody is willing to wave away that risk for an assurance that the group will try really, really hard not to be mind eaten by a horror. I could very easily see a majority of the members of a life-rock being very, very, very upset with any member who joined their life-rock into a magical link with an adventuring group that few of them know. And having very strong objections to such reckless behaviour. I mean one can't just say there should be no objections.
(if of course that is the way the gm wants to play it)
Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:39 am
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Statistics:Posted by Belenus — Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:41 pm
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I understand how some people can find it troublesome to keep your obsidiman character out of a group pattern, and thereby miss out on the power boost that can go along with it.
The extent to which a group is comfortable with mechanical power disparity between individual player characters can vary widely, and you aren't doing it wrong to allow solutions that work for your group.
Statistics:Posted by Mataxes — Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:51 pm
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So an obsidiman needs to trust you a lot more deeply to ever even consider blood magic (such as oaths, promises, or group patterns)
Statistics:Posted by ragbasti — Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:14 am
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