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FASA Games, Inc.FASA Games Forums and News 2024-04-09T09:59:04 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/app.php/feed/topic/1414 2024-04-09T09:59:042024-04-09T09:59:04 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1414&p=20521#p20521 <![CDATA[Re: The RaW for infections are brutal!!!]]> poki decision-making skills. Quick and strategic choices are often pivotal for success in many online games.

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Statistics:Posted by nancy266 — Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:44 am

]]> 2019-10-07T09:01:222019-10-07T09:01:22 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1414&p=10636#p10636 <![CDATA[Re: The RaW for infections are brutal!!!]]>
The initial goal is to heal your wounds before they become infected, once the last wound is healed you don't have to worry about infection any more. Physicians tests, keeping wounds clean, and powdered penicillin help with the roll to keep your wounds from becoming infected.

However wounds that become infected will not heal until the infection is done away with (page 240, last bullet point), so if your wounds do become infected, you have to heal them. My understanding is that physician tests and (probably) injected penicillin can do that. If you can get rid of the infection, the wounds can heal.

And the effects of infection are not only reduced perception, but also toughness, strength, and dex, and if any of those drop to zero you die.

Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:01 am

]]> 2019-10-06T17:51:262019-10-06T17:51:26 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1414&p=10630#p10630 <![CDATA[Re: The RaW for infections are brutal!!!]]> Statistics:Posted by LexiLiegh — Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:51 pm

]]> 2019-10-06T12:44:382019-10-06T12:44:38 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1414&p=10623#p10623 <![CDATA[Re: The RaW for infections are brutal!!!]]>
page 240 (the rules on infections) wrote:If the character’s Wounds are treated with antibacterial medication, such as powdered penicillin, and clean bandages, no additional penalty is incurred for the day.
page 298 (the equipment entry for penicillin) wrote:Applying the powder grants a +6 Step bonus to Resistance Tests to avoid infection.
Do both of these effects apply? One dose of powdered penicillin per wound per day both keeps the target number from increasing and gives a plus 6 bonus to the resistance test? Because if so the RaW medicine only option suddenly becomes much more survivable, if the reader happens to notice both effects in the rules.

Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:44 pm

]]> 2019-10-06T12:49:092019-10-06T07:12:30 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1414&p=10618#p10618 <![CDATA[Re: The RaW for infections are brutal!!!]]>
for a number of days equal to the duration of the infection
This is impossible to do except upon the first day! Example: no physician succeeds in treatment the first day. On day two the number of days treatment must be successful is 2. But it takes two days to achieve those successes, so by this time the duration of the infection is three days, so the number of days treatment must be successful has grown to three. By the time it is possible to achieve the third success, the number required has grown to four! There is no way to catch up! The wound simply remains infected until the character inevitably dies. Even with treatment. This is a logic bug that should be easy to fix.

Note: I would love to see a rule where it was possible to clear up an infection though shear TOU, no physician or medicine required. Something like "Instead of a physician test, the infected character can make a TOU test (with the TOU penalty for having infection) TN 10 with each success counting as a successful physician test to fight infection".

I can think of several fairly easy fixes to the logic bug, with the 2nd fix easier to word than the others and gives a good chance of desirable results.
One fix is to allow for extra successes to count (IE: eliminate the phrase "number of days treatment" and substitute it with some text that means number of successes, but only one test can be done per day, such as
"In order to clear an infection, the character must be treated with antibacterial medication and receive medical care in the form of cumulative successes on Physician Tests equal to the duration of the infection, only one Physician Test may be done for this purpose per day."

This would at least make it possible to save somebody, but would require very excellent physicians tests. Example, somebody is brought to hospital on day 3 of an infection, they have -3 to most attributes. A physician test is made that gives two successes. The next day they are -4 to most attributes and unless the daily physicians test can achieve three successes the patient will die the next day when one of their attributes drops to zero. Like I said, this method would at least be logical, but is not my preferred method of solving the logic bug.


My suggested text for this paragraph, that eliminates the logic bug, and gives a good chance of saving the patient is...
Failure indicates that the Wound has gone septic. The character suffers a –1 penalty to their Strength, Toughness, Dexterity, and Perception Steps for each day the Wound [was not successfully treated] [remains infected]. If any of these Steps drop to zero, the character dies. In order to clear an infection, the character must be treated with antibacterial medication and receive medical care (a successful Physician Test [that may only be attempted for this purpose once per day] [by another character or a Gamemaster Character]) with a number of cumulative successes equal to [the number of days the infection was not successfully treated] [the duration of the infection].

I like this version of the rules, because it keeps access to a physician as the best option with an excellent chance of survival, but increases medicine only (with no physician) from a slight chance of survival to a fairly good (but not excellent) chance of survival, and increases nether physician nor medicine from no chance of survival, up to a slight chance of survival. These seem both better and more realistic to me.

To put it all together in one clean paragraph...
Failure indicates that the Wound has gone septic. The character suffers a –1 penalty to their Strength, Toughness, Dexterity, and Perception Steps for each day the Wound was not successfully treated. If any of these Steps drop to zero, the character dies. In order to clear an infection, the character should be treated with antibacterial medication and receive medical care in the form of cumulative successes on Physician Tests equal to the number of days the infection was not successfully treated, only one Physician Test may be done for this purpose per day. Instead of a physician test, the infected character may make a TOU test (with the TOU penalty for having infection) TN 10 with each success counting as a successful physician test to fight infection. Penicillin injections (see page 298) may be used to bolster this TOU test, but additional doses do not allow additional resistance tests when not administered by someone with the physician skill.
Also Note: Am I missing something? Does "a successful Physician Test by themselves, another character, or a GMC" convey some nuance different than "a successful Physician Test" or "a successful usage of the Physician Skill"? I am wondering if you are thinking that the first makes it more obvious that a Physicians Kit usage is expended? Or the extra verbiage is conveying something else?

Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:12 am

]]> 2019-10-05T12:33:522019-10-05T12:33:52 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1414&p=10612#p10612 <![CDATA[Re: The RaW for infections are brutal!!!]]>
(I don't know if you've looked through those rules, but Cusa should a have been making a Warping test with a base Step of 6 or 7 against his MD every time he cast a spell, and if it succeeded taken Step 9 or 10 damage on top of the strain. Assuming Open Astral Space. Also, in Open Space, every TN is supposed to be increased by 2. I have, ahem, not been playing with those rules. A reasonable option would be to have Warping Damage happen on a rule of 1 on a Spellcasting Test, and have it cause Stun, not Damage. But that is aside from the topic.)

I do think it would be good for the rules to reinforce the idea that penicillin was an absolute life-saving game-changer, but if the rules are so harsh you can't use them then you never use them and they fail to serve their purpose. So far I've just declared them optional and not used them.

As for house ruling, I have decided to experiment with allowing Wounds to let a Recovery Test cause negative healing, AKA damage, in my Earthdawn game (starting next week!). It kind of breaks my suspension of disbelief that you can just not get medical treatment if you have 8 wounds and you'll just get better. In 1879, that might be the test that determines infection. If a Recovery Test results in damage, the wounded character is Infected and takes an additional wound. Something like that. But I haven't really thought through that.

*Edit though maybe it would be better if Sepsis was written up like a disease, since it is one.

Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:33 pm

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