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Belenus wrote: ↑
It was an extremely powerful spell.
And I guess it was cut because of exactly this reason.
Each other casters also lost their spells to dogde with spellcasting.
No, I can assure you this spell has frustrated more than one sword master trying to hit our elementarist. The only thing wrong with it was the effect step. IMHO with just Willforce+2 it would have been ok! It needs two threads!Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:52 pm
Am I the only person who used Throne of Air for the dogde abilty?It was an extremely powerful spell.
And I guess it was cut because of exactly this reason.
Each other casters also lost their spells to dogde with spellcasting.
Icy surface is still there... this has 0 threads and is very effective in splitting the charge of say a large outnumbering group of land bound enemies. It allows a group to diminish the first wave that makes it through and mop up the rest without being swarmed.
Also a good barrier inside a corridor.
My players never really appreciated the tactical opportunities it offers...
Statistics:Posted by Lursi — Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:27 pm
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And I guess it was cut because of exactly this reason.
Each other casters also lost their spells to dogde with spellcasting.
Statistics:Posted by Belenus — Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:52 pm
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Warning: Makes a lot of stuff trivial :>
Also what ragbasti wrote. If one discipline can do everything...
Statistics:Posted by Aegharan — Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:01 pm
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I'm the GM, so I guess I can adapt it to 4ed. I was just wondering if there was a good reason not to have it there. I've only run a couple of games in 4ed (I used 2nd many years ago) so I'm not sure what can unbalance the game yet
Statistics:Posted by Nicai — Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:04 am
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What original use of it did yours do with the spell?
Throne of air is not among the 4th edition spells indeed but, as stated before, you could ask your GM to just copy it verbatim from older edition and/or ask him to come up with effects for Extra Successes and Extra Threads.
Statistics:Posted by Bonhumm — Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:39 am
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Panda wrote: ↑
Also games with explicit horror and suspense themes really should not have a TPK spell.Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:09 am
Ricochet Attack was another combat spell that was pretty powerful and very similar to Lightning Bolt. Figuring out how to make it distinctive and preserve the extra thread mechanic means it didn't make the cut. As written, it's not a good fit for Elementalist and makes more sense as a Wizard spell; there's nothing elemental about it, but manipulating energy.Statistics:Posted by etherial — Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:13 pm
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Gills is in Mystic Paths as a Shaman spell and Crushing Hand of Earth is in the Player's Guide. Grasping Hand of Earth was cut because there's no "lockdown" type effects available at only one thread and there wasn't much point in have both spells; one is an just an improved version of the other.
Individually, Earth Blend didn't fit with the Elementalist themes being built and would just be a weaker version of effects available to Illusionist and Nethermancer. Which isn't worth the limited space. Porter falls under interesting, but ultimately an easy cut to make (like Pack Bags). The duration also means this is effectively a permanent effect, which isn't a spell committed to lightly. Lodestone's Touch was cut due to balancing and a desire to remove many such material specific effects. The spell is effective against most Namegivers, but useless against most creatures and Horrors. This lack of versatility means it's not a good pick when space is this limited. Flameshaw was cut due to the amount of effort invested in updating it. All summoning type spells were redesigned from the ground up to reflect the entirely different approach. There's also the duration issue. Ricochet Attack was another combat spell that was pretty powerful and very similar to Lightning Bolt. Figuring out how to make it distinctive and preserve the extra thread mechanic means it didn't make the cut. As written, it's not a good fit for Elementalist and makes more sense as a Wizard spell; there's nothing elemental about it, but manipulating energy. Calm Water had everything to do with any updates need to be tied to relevant mechanics, which means ships. Otherwise it would require printing an update to the spell to explain how it works in that situation.
Hopefully this sheds some light on decisions made very early in the design process.
Best regards,
Morgan
Statistics:Posted by Panda — Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:09 am
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Personally I miss the following spells in Elementarism:
Gills - enables underwater ventures and hence interesting plots
Earth Blend - and gone he is, ok maybe more for the illusionist...
Porter - useful for weak people
Lodestone’s Touch - Magnetism is so cute for an Elementarist!
Flameshaw - What an entry into a town in a burning Rickshaw!
Richochet Attack - Maybe overpowered, but very nice mechanic
Calm Water - worth your life in a storm...
Crushing Hand of Earth - signature killing move against a Villain!
Most of it is just semi usefuls but enables legendary shows.
Statistics:Posted by Lursi — Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:34 am
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The assessment on what it takes for a spell to "earn a spot" is spot on. If the spell isn't worth the Legend Point cost, then it's not worth the space something else could be using. This puts some neat, but not terribly useful effects in a weird place, but I am trying to redevelop as many of the old spells as possible to bring them inline with 4E expectations, in addition to writing new material. Spells just take more work to design compared to other abilities. When this is compared against the number of characters who have access to them, they consume a disproportionate amount of space and time. It's unfortunate, but maintaining consistency and quality is very important.
Some goods news is Mystic Paths introduces Improved Spell knacks, which provide more life to existing spells and further reduce the need for what amounts to a higher Circle version of an existing spell. While not free, their costs are less than a higher Circle spell and don't require additional spell matrices. Instead modifying the spell upon casting. Those presented in Mystic Paths are specifically associated with a Path, though most are available to Discipline members at perhaps a later point. This builds on the general concept of doing more with less and making spellcasting more flexible in application.
Discipline perspectives was something we talked about, but it ultimately wasn't feasible. Space was a major reason (that would cut even more spells), but what to include there also presented problems. Using the essays from The Adept's Way would be an easy answer, but those introduced concepts we definitely weren't ready to include yet (e.g., Heartblades). Cutting those out wasn't a good solution because we probably want to include them in the future. Also, we've been trying to avoid simply reprinting old material as much as possible. Writing new essays presented its own set of problems. Presenting in-character perspectives for each Discipline is important and not forgotten. Since they're already out there for the 15 Disciplines in the Player's Guide, they aren't the most important thing right now. Including those perspectives for the Disciplines and Paths presented in Mystic Paths was important because they can't be found anywhere else. At least, not in addressing them as presented in 4E.
Hopefully this provides some additional insight.
Best regards,
Morgan
Statistics:Posted by Panda — Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:09 am
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All I have to do now is win the powerball and then I can make those books come faster
Statistics:Posted by Michael — Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:41 am
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