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FASA Games, Inc.FASA Games Forums and News 2023-12-23T16:21:14 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/app.php/feed/topic/1165 2023-12-23T16:21:142023-12-23T16:21:14 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=20124#p20124 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]> heardle

Statistics:Posted by Laurent59T — Sat Dec 23, 2023 4:21 pm


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2019-04-28T12:33:182019-04-28T12:33:18 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9510#p9510 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]> Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:33 pm


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2019-04-12T14:48:262019-04-12T14:48:26 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9410#p9410 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]> Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:48 pm


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2019-04-12T11:57:562019-04-12T11:57:56 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9409#p9409 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]> Statistics:Posted by Andrew1879 — Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:57 am


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2019-04-12T11:43:252019-04-12T11:43:25 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9408#p9408 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]> Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:43 am


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2019-04-12T11:35:302019-04-12T11:35:30 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9407#p9407 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]> Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:35 am


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2019-04-12T16:22:572019-04-12T07:43:41 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9406#p9406 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]>
Unless I misremember, both 1st and classic editions of Earthdawn only required a talent be used once per rank to advance it. Requiring it to be tagged the new ranks triangle number is a very different beast. I mean to get to rank 10, it is the difference between requiring it to be tagged 9 times vs 54 times. These seem to me to be incredibly different numbers.

Some skills seem incredibly easy to tag. I would expect Awareness to be tagged in more scenes than not. All of a persons favorite combat skills will probably all get tagged every fight with rare exceptions. I think a person occasionally using their less favorite, or backup combat skills just to keep their hand in to be a good thing.

I also think it would usually be a good thing if a player approached a GM and said "you know, we have been doing a lot of town adventures lately, and I would love to raise my characters Wilderness Survival a rank or two, Just so you know, after this current adventure is concluded, my character is going to be actively looking for adventure opportunities out in the wilderness where he can get Wilderness Survival tagged frequently, and if the area has venomous opponent, that will be a plus as well. I hope my character can soon find an adventure in line with his searching". This seems like a very good statement both in game and out of game. But I only think it would be a good thing if such conversations happened occasionally, not frequently. Also, the other players/characters might not share their companions enthusiasm for seeking out venomous opponents.

Where I see a problem is that it seems to me that some skills are much more difficult to tag than others. Or that you would normally do everything in your power to avoid tagging. Sure Life Check is the extreme (but important) example, but there are others: Lion Heart, Heal Animal Companion, etc. Graceful Exit often means your character ran from a fight. It's nice to have that be an option, but it is usually not the optimal outcome of the fight.

So I can see that Andrew has a whole lot of experience GMing with a requirement that skills be tagged once before they are advanced, but I am unsure how that maps to experience with a system that requires skills be tagged "the new rank times" to advance. I mean how many times did players struggle to get get specific Talents tagged even that one time? If a character picks up Lion Heart as a Warden Core skill, how long will it take to get that skill tagged 54 times in play? And no, I don't really consider allowing the player to spend 54 weeks in training instead to be an adequate alternative.

I like playing by the rules, and greatly prefer to see workable rules rather than rules that everybody knows 90% of the tables will end up discarding at least part of the time. I think it is possible to do this, but I don't think the original rules, not the current errata meet that threshold.

Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:43 am


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2019-04-12T01:10:402019-04-12T01:10:40 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9405#p9405 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]> Statistics:Posted by Andrew1879 — Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:10 am


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2019-04-11T20:17:362019-04-11T20:17:36 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9404#p9404 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]> Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:17 pm


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2019-04-11T11:37:182019-04-11T11:37:18 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9400#p9400 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]>
All that having been said, watch for the forthcoming errata, that will kludge around this for people who find the system as designed too slow.

Statistics:Posted by Andrew1879 — Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:37 am


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2019-04-11T06:06:132019-04-11T06:06:13 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9399#p9399 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]>
Lets take for example a character that has just arrived at PR 5 and trained to Journeyman Tier. They have 7 Core Skills at PR 5 (or higher). If they have not planned ahead, and have an extra Core Skill that is nearly at rank 5 as well, then they can't advance to PR 6 until their brand new Core Skill has been tagged 20 times. Now there are some Skills that can be tagged in nearly every scene. But lets say they pick a skill that only gets tagged around once per session. That means 20 sessions before they can advance to PR 6.

I anticipate that it would not be rare that a PR 6 character will be advancing their character with no thought whatsoever to how they want the character to advance, but merely advancing anything that they are allowed to advance. The skills that can be tagged advance often. The ones that they can't tag advance very slowly. And if they are not very careful, they might not be able to advance their PR, because too many of their skills are Optional Skills or Core Skills that are hard to tag. What is the fun of that? The tagging rules dictate how the character can advance, not the player. How is this enhancing the game?

So all I have is theory to go on. Has anybody got any actual experience with how it works at Journeyman or higher?

Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:06 am


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2019-03-27T20:37:462019-03-27T20:37:46 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9264#p9264 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]> Statistics:Posted by Andrew1879 — Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:37 pm


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2019-03-27T18:30:392019-03-27T18:30:39 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9262#p9262 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]> Statistics:Posted by Slimcreeper — Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:30 pm


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2019-03-27T17:59:282019-03-27T17:59:28 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9261#p9261 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]> Statistics:Posted by Andrew1879 — Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:59 pm


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2019-03-27T15:49:102019-03-27T15:49:10 http://www.fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1165&p=9260#p9260 <![CDATA[Re: Tagging skills]]>
I just pity the poor Journeyman Explorer. 3 of her Journeyman Core skills are Danger Sense, Life Check and Stout Constitution. A really great day for her is when she fails her Danger Sense roll, and a trap poisons her, then she fails her Stout Constitution roll, so slightly dies. She gets to tag three of her hard to tag core skills! Do that 20 more times and they are all up to rank 6!

You also have the problem of Skills that are often used "off camera". For example I have never seen a GM bother with more than 2 Animal Bond tests. Day one, you succeed, the animal is neutral to you. The next day it is Friendly. Over the next few weeks it eventually becomes Loyal. How many times was it tagged?
Animal Training is also usually done during downtime. How many times does it get to be tagged in a week of downtime?
Animal Handling and Equestrian might be used every day for important activities, but only rarely will the GM require a roll.
Call Animal Companion, at rank 1 only functions for 100 yards. That means that it is almost impossible to use not trivially.
Etc. Etc. Etc.

You might consider a mechanic such as dividing the skills into 3 lists.
No Tagging: Uses Durability rules. Durability and Life Check.
Tag Once: Skill must be used once before it can be raised. Danger Sense, Stout Constitution, and a dozen others.
Tag new Rank times. Standard rules.
And still you are going to have a bunch of people bribing and Air Speaking for no other reason than to get them tagged.
Another option would be that Journeyman skills don't need to be tagged until they reach rank 5, and Warden skills don't need to be tagged until they reach rank 9. Lots of good options.

Statistics:Posted by ChrisDDickey — Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:49 pm


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